12-17-2005, 03:08 PM | #1 |
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The ACLU - pros and cons
I thought there was a thread that I had started before on the ACLU, but I can't find it now... SO here's another one, where I'd like to discuss everything about the ACLU, both good and bad.
And to start off, I'd like to call on anyone who is tired of the ACLU's efforts to remove Christmas from the public square to send a Christmas (that's CHRISTMAS, not HOLIDAY) card to the ACLU, with a warm and friendly message written inside Here's their address: ACLU 125 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 I got an email from some friends of mine suggesting this. I think it is a wonderful form of peaceful protest to a group that is throwing lawsuits at communities for celebrating Christmas, a national holiday in our country. Please, guys, keep it civil, keep it kind - the way a peaceful protest of this type should be - but PASS IT ON! and mail in those Christmas cards! I'll gather together some examples of Christmas-type ACLU lawsuits by next week and we can discuss them here if anyone wants to, along with any other type of thing that the ACLU is protesting against (there are some good ones, too, IMHO)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 12-17-2005 at 03:27 PM. |
12-17-2005, 04:48 PM | #2 |
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So its the ACLU who've been making this even a news subject? I keep seeing it on the news about how some extremist grinchies want to force everyone to quit saying Christmas. WHAT POPPYCOCK! It's CHRISTMAS, for crying out loud! December 25 is CHRISTMAS! Whether or not it may have actually been the birthday of some Roman emperor or pagan holiday or whatever, as it stands now it is a CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY as much as Hannukah is a JEWISH holiday and Ramadan an Islamic one. Why can't these grumpy ACLU types get off their self-righteous bandwagon and just leave people to enjoy a goodwill, sparkly, joyful holiday season - SO WHAT if it's a time to celebrate Christ? Christ was actually a tremendous genius and wonderful person whose actions for peace & understanding changed the world, whether or not he was actually the Son of God or whatever, it is THE SEASON to be positive anbd happy, and to share, and celebrate joy & peace and stuff like that.
Freakin' grinches.
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12-17-2005, 04:48 PM | #3 | |
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What's good about the ACLU: They are Americans who have opinions and care about things that matter. They are not like those Americans who are apathetic about many things and willfully remain dimwitted. Even better, the ACLU is full of people who act upon those opinions! We need people like that badly in our country. What's bad about the ACLU: Many of the opinions they espouse and argue for, I believe, are wrong. Thus, though they seek to help the American people, they are in many ways hurting them. Those are my main views. I'm glad that the ACLU is full of intelligent, active people who care. I'm disappointed that they are using their efforts in causes that many times are severely flawed.
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12-17-2005, 04:53 PM | #4 |
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Ciao, Lief. We cross-posted! Yeah, I've never heard of the ACLU being so silly. I just do not understand this anti-Christmas sentiment, not at all. I think it is taking things way too far. While we're at it, might as well take "In God we trust" off all the money, you know? But it's even way worse than that, saying Christmas shouldn't be Christmas. So ridiculous.
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12-17-2005, 05:07 PM | #5 | |
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I also disapprove strongly of the French decision to ban headscarves from Muslim women. To me, that is a blatant attack on those people's freedom of religion, and quite disgraceful.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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12-17-2005, 05:08 PM | #6 |
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I must say, on both points you just made there, I quite agree with you, even though I am NOT any longer a Christian. What you're saying makes perfect sense.
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12-18-2005, 02:14 AM | #7 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-18-2005, 11:42 AM | #8 | |
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12-18-2005, 11:46 AM | #9 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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12-18-2005, 09:14 PM | #10 |
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But if a store wants to put up a sign that says "happy holidays" they shouldnt be the target of hatred by religious extremists. They should just be allowed to do what THEY want to do.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
12-18-2005, 10:04 PM | #11 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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12-18-2005, 10:05 PM | #12 |
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Please don't tell me that you all think that there is a war on Christmas :P I guess I must be imagining all the radio stations playing nothing but christmas songs, all those christmas trees everywhere, and the santa clauses in every mall.
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12-19-2005, 02:01 AM | #13 | |
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Here's an interesting article about how Christmas is being attacked in Britain: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html Whether you choose one side or the other, there are two sides: Those who believe the word "Christmas" should be replaced in society with some more all-embracing term, and those who believe "Christmas" should remain as it is.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 12-19-2005 at 02:11 AM. |
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12-19-2005, 02:20 AM | #14 |
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My town's mayor put's an obnoxiously big "MERRY CHRISTMAS" in bright lights all across the municipal building's front lawn each year, just to be defiant. He's a pretty cool guy. My aunt lives down the block from him and whenever she throws a party he shows up. That's the way it should be.
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12-19-2005, 06:23 AM | #15 |
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I was discussing this with a Muslim friend recently and he made the point that no Muslim he knows of would be offended by the use of the word "Christmas". Moreover, he sees the attempts to ban any reference to Christmas as counter-productive, because it is seen as being done in the name of minorities (but, tellingly, not BY them), and therefore stirs up resentment against them. I agree.
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12-19-2005, 10:41 AM | #16 | |
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their is no "war on christianity", only the continued questioning of how religious beliefs should be intwined with public life... the ACLU is an organization that pushes these questions... the reason? because they should be asked, generation to generation, in order to preserve the free, open and tolerant nation we all know and love on the specifics of something like a "christmas tree"... it's a regional decision, as it should be... there is nothing wrong with people asking their local government to either be secular or to equally recognize all religious symbols in the public realm... it would be crazy to expect that some town in the middle of the US with absolutely no jewish inhabitants display a menorah on their town square... there is also nothing wrong with a very religiously-intermixed city in the US choosing to approach the holiday season more secularly... the choice is up to the people in that particular community the point is that the question can and should be asked without anyone considering it an "attack"... an real "attack" on our freedoms would be not allowing people to ask these kind of questions if it is something that concerns them
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12-19-2005, 01:05 PM | #17 | |
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12-19-2005, 10:20 PM | #18 |
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This morning, Donald Trump came on the radio to rant about how everything is "the holidays" now. Apparently, stores had been running ads for "sales on the best holiday trees," as if to satisfy all the Jews looking for Hanukkah trees as well as the Christians looking for Christmas trees. They're clearly Christmas trees and nothing else, at all, ever. Why on Earth would you try to use a "politically correct" euphemism for an exclusively Christmas item? It got me angry because it didn't make any sense. So many people called up the stores to yell at them that they actually changed their ads, and Donald Trump just wanted to stop by the radio station to tell those people how proud he was of them and how stupid were the people behind those ad campaigns.
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12-19-2005, 10:57 PM | #19 |
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Hanukkah trees?
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12-19-2005, 11:10 PM | #20 |
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Exactly. It doesn't make sense, but the only logical explanation for their saying "holiday trees" is that they're trying to appeal to every religion. They're not going to be bought for Hanukkah or Kwanza or whatever else though, obviously, so they're logic is dumb and they should just call them "Christmas trees" like they're supposed to and expected to.
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