B.B. and the Council of Elrond

straight_face · 03-30-2003, 10:29 AM

I was reading the Council of Elrond recently in the Fellowship of the Ring for the... fourth time it seems. I was wondering... why didn't Bilbo attend the Council of Elrond in the movie? It seems probable to conclude that this is because he was either unnecessary to the other important roles, or he didn't fit in. Bilbo's part in the Council, according to the book, is a rather short one, while on the other hand, Gloin attended the Council and he said nothing in the movie. Either way, this is no reason for Bilbo not to attend.

***azalea*** · 03-30-2003, 02:33 PM

I agree. That was one of the most moving parts of the Council IMO, when he offered to take the Ring, and Tolkien tells us that Boromir (?) almost laughed, but that when he saw the looks on the others' faces, he realized that this "halfling" had the respect of everyone, etc. That would have been a GREAT movie moment, IMO.
The only reason I can think of is that because if his lines are to be cut (hey, it would have been fun to have us hear Bilbo's part in the matter then as told by him rather than by Galadriel at the beginning), then why go through the trouble of "aging" him (all the time and makeup that involves), and they might have used that time to have Ian Holm doing some shots elsewhere.
(BTW, I saw Ian Holm in Big Night the other night on video -- he was great).
Still, it's a pity.

SamwiseGamgeeOTS · 03-30-2003, 03:00 PM

Maybe PJ just didn't wanna take the time to walk off his big butt and ask Bilbo to say a few lines. I'm sorry. I don't have much respect for PJ....a little. but, not much. All in all, the Council scene was very dissapointing. But, if Bilbo would have been in it...that might only had been more time added to the 3 hours of footage, ya know?

but, what can we do..what's done is done.

straight_face · 03-30-2003, 03:42 PM

I can understand that most people don't have a definite liking for Peter Jackson, but if you imagine yourself doing this gigantic movie, you know you have different pictures in mind for separate scenes, and that was the difficultly. As I stated before (I think), I can see why Gloin attended the Council although he did not say much. Bilbo didn't exactly have to say anything... and now that we're on his dialogue, I think he should have said more in the movie as he did in the book. Almost every day in the book it stated that Frodo thought about Bilbo in the most difficult of times, and he was always dreaming about seeing Bilbo again. You don't exactly see that connection in the film, really, that certain care that Frodo possesed for Bilbo. But still... the Council of Elrond would be portrayed better, possibly, without Bilbo's absence.

Boy, I really said 'Bilbo' a lot. Perhaps I need some polishing on pronouns...

***azalea*** · 03-30-2003, 03:52 PM

Yes, I guess the justification for Gloin is that this is our first exposure to dwarves (besides the millisecond in the Prologue), and they wanted a few there. Since we've already seen hobbits, it wasn't necessary (plus they needed the dwarves for the big argument

). The "movie" justification for Bilbo's absence is probably his age, that he just wasn't interested in being there.

Dúnedain · 03-31-2003, 05:27 AM

Well on the special edition DVD they said they had trouble with the Council, because of the length of it in the book and they really had to scale it down as best as they could so it would fit well with the way the movie was leading. Sounds to me like they cut a lot out of the filming of it as well...

03-30-2003, 10:29 AM	#1
straight_face Enting Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Angband Posts: 91	B.B. and the Council of Elrond I was reading the Council of Elrond recently in the Fellowship of the Ring for the... fourth time it seems. I was wondering... why didn't Bilbo attend the Council of Elrond in the movie? It seems probable to conclude that this is because he was either unnecessary to the other important roles, or he didn't fit in. Bilbo's part in the Council, according to the book, is a rather short one, while on the other hand, Gloin attended the Council and he said nothing in the movie. Either way, this is no reason for Bilbo not to attend. __________________ 'There was no need. He halted just by us and looked down at us. "Gandalf!" I said at last, but my voice was only a whisper. Did he say: "Hullo, Pippin! This is a pleasant surprise!" No, indeed! He said: "Get up, you tom-fool of a Took! Where, in the name of wonder, in all this ruin is Treebeard? I want him. Quick!"' 'What are we going to do now then?' asked Pippin, undaunted by the wizard's bristling brows. "Knock on the door with your head, Peregrin Took,' said Gandalf. 'But if that does not shatter them, and I am allowed a little peace from foolish questions, I will seek for the opening words.' 'Fool of a Took!' he growled. 'This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party. Throw yourself in next time, and then you will be no further nuisance. Now be quiet!'

03-30-2003, 03:00 PM	#3
SamwiseGamgeeOTS Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A quaint little hole which last time I checked was somewhere near Ohio, Middle-Earth. Posts: 165	Maybe PJ just didn't wanna take the time to walk off his big butt and ask Bilbo to say a few lines. I'm sorry. I don't have much respect for PJ....a little. but, not much. All in all, the Council scene was very dissapointing. But, if Bilbo would have been in it...that might only had been more time added to the 3 hours of footage, ya know? but, what can we do..what's done is done. __________________ "...Eragon recoiled in shock. Standing in front of him, licking off the membrane that encased it, was a dragon."

03-30-2003, 03:42 PM	#4
straight_face Enting Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Angband Posts: 91	rEpLy I can understand that most people don't have a definite liking for Peter Jackson, but if you imagine yourself doing this gigantic movie, you know you have different pictures in mind for separate scenes, and that was the difficultly. As I stated before (I think), I can see why Gloin attended the Council although he did not say much. Bilbo didn't exactly have to say anything... and now that we're on his dialogue, I think he should have said more in the movie as he did in the book. Almost every day in the book it stated that Frodo thought about Bilbo in the most difficult of times, and he was always dreaming about seeing Bilbo again. You don't exactly see that connection in the film, really, that certain care that Frodo possesed for Bilbo. But still... the Council of Elrond would be portrayed better, possibly, without Bilbo's absence. Boy, I really said 'Bilbo' a lot. Perhaps I need some polishing on pronouns... __________________ 'There was no need. He halted just by us and looked down at us. "Gandalf!" I said at last, but my voice was only a whisper. Did he say: "Hullo, Pippin! This is a pleasant surprise!" No, indeed! He said: "Get up, you tom-fool of a Took! Where, in the name of wonder, in all this ruin is Treebeard? I want him. Quick!"' 'What are we going to do now then?' asked Pippin, undaunted by the wizard's bristling brows. "Knock on the door with your head, Peregrin Took,' said Gandalf. 'But if that does not shatter them, and I am allowed a little peace from foolish questions, I will seek for the opening words.' 'Fool of a Took!' he growled. 'This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party. Throw yourself in next time, and then you will be no further nuisance. Now be quiet!' Last edited by straight_face : 03-30-2003 at 03:43 PM.

03-31-2003, 05:27 AM	#6
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	Well on the special edition DVD they said they had trouble with the Council, because of the length of it in the book and they really had to scale it down as best as they could so it would fit well with the way the movie was leading. Sounds to me like they cut a lot out of the filming of it as well... __________________ 'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen

03-30-2003, 02:33 PM	#2
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I agree. That was one of the most moving parts of the Council IMO, when he offered to take the Ring, and Tolkien tells us that Boromir (?) almost laughed, but that when he saw the looks on the others' faces, he realized that this "halfling" had the respect of everyone, etc. That would have been a GREAT movie moment, IMO. The only reason I can think of is that because if his lines are to be cut (hey, it would have been fun to have us hear Bilbo's part in the matter then as told by him rather than by Galadriel at the beginning), then why go through the trouble of "aging" him (all the time and makeup that involves), and they might have used that time to have Ian Holm doing some shots elsewhere. (BTW, I saw Ian Holm in Big Night the other night on video -- he was great). Still, it's a pity.

03-30-2003, 03:52 PM	#5
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Yes, I guess the justification for Gloin is that this is our first exposure to dwarves (besides the millisecond in the Prologue), and they wanted a few there. Since we've already seen hobbits, it wasn't necessary (plus they needed the dwarves for the big argument ). The "movie" justification for Bilbo's absence is probably his age, that he just wasn't interested in being there.