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12-27-2001, 06:34 PM | #1 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
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Pluses and minuses, but the best film in history
The film is the best film I have seen in my life. Yes, Bombadil and Old Man Willow, the Barrow Downs and the house at Crickhollow and the seventeen-year stretch between Bilbo's departure and Frodo's departure from the Shire are gone, but I can bloody well forgive Peter Jackson. This IS Tolkien's world, NOT some creation loosely based on the incredible works of the Master.
I was going to be one of the hardest-to-please fans in the audience. I was really turned off when I learned that Liv Tyler had been cast as Arwen, and that Arwen would play a larger part in the story than in the books. However, I have to understand the strictures placed on Mr Jackson in trying to win audiences not familiar with the books, and that the studio probably pressed him to add more "eye candy" to keep the uninitiated interested. I was pleasantly surprised. Ms. Tyler did sterling work as Arwen, and the use of Arwen in the place of the Elf Lord Glorfindel was forgiveable. Any disappointments I had with the liberties taken with the Master's works were swept away as the film unfolded. The depth of imagination, the full texture of Middle Earth and the true feel of the story did come across, and strongly. Never before have I been so completely enchanted by a film, so completely absorbed for three hours. Mr Jackson outdid any director in film history in making this film, and his treatment of my favorite books, although not 100% accurate, is as close to the original as I could have hoped. The only let-down was that there were no previews of The Two Towers at the end of the film. I think uninitiated viewers may come away feeling unfulfilled, especially if they had no idea this is the first of three films. Christmas 2002 and 2003 cannot come fast enough. I quit waiting for Santa a long time ago; now I have reason for my heart to race at the thought of Yuletide, at least for the next two years. Bravo, Mr. Jackson, and may The Fellowship of the Ring sweep the Oscars! |
12-27-2001, 07:32 PM | #2 |
The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 4,572
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Amen on everything but two small points:
1. I think it's too early to find a place for this in our personal top ten's. Let's wait till we can sit down with our DVD players and watch all three back-to-back-to-back. 2. I love the wait! It's one of the most exciting parts! I'm really glad the time between the films is stretched out, that way I have two more years of wonder ahead! |
12-27-2001, 08:59 PM | #3 |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
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Tater, on both points, are you nuts?!??!!?
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12-27-2001, 09:19 PM | #4 |
The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
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Answer: yes of course
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12-27-2001, 10:10 PM | #5 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Wherever I may roam
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If we are talking about great movies, I agree that it is too early to judge.
BTW, if anyone cares, my favorite movie (this month) is Fight Club. |
12-27-2001, 10:59 PM | #6 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA
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"The best film in history"? Hardly. A "good " movie, yes, very well done, yes.
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Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty! |
12-28-2001, 12:13 PM | #7 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Littleton, CO
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Well, we'll just call it a friendly disagreement. I have to admit I am a tad biased, since this is the movie I've waited for longer than any, and maybe my enthusiasm colors my memory.
However, I cannot recall another film with the depth of imagination and care and toil which has produced this film. The level of detail, the dedication of all involved in it, and the fact it brought me to tears thrice in three hours makes this, in my humble and egocentric opinion, the best movie I have ever seen. Maybe it's just justifiable relief that this was not just another "Bakshi-ized" treatment of the greatest work of literature of the twentieth century. Thanks for the reply! |
12-28-2001, 01:37 PM | #8 |
Enting
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Back Home!!
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I must agree w/ Darth Tater about the wait between films!
I devour books. I can't stop reading or force myself to go slower, so I fly through book after book and I'm constantly looking for something to read. Therefore to have to wait 3 years 'till the 'end' - wow...chills...I'm savoring the anticipation...it's intoxicating! |
12-28-2001, 04:20 PM | #9 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
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Location: Littleton, CO
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I was looking at The Two Towers today, the version with stills from the film, and saw, with great delight, whom I took to be Theoden and Arwen. I've also seen a few shots of the Rohirrim, and some daylight shots of orcs not in FotR.
It's like giving a hungry man a crumb of Lembas. He will march on, but not for long before the hunger gnaws at him. And the hunger for The Two Towers and The Return of the King gnaws at me deeply! Holy Hannh, I sure hope this year passes quickly.....this brings to me once more the poignancy of the phrase, "As slow as Christmas!"
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. |
12-28-2001, 04:21 PM | #10 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
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Whoops....meant to say, "Theoden and Eowyn". that will teach me to "Review Post" a tad more carefully!
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. |
12-28-2001, 07:55 PM | #11 |
Sapling
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 8
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Well Time-Warner certainly spent enough money to get people to think this was "The grandest adventure in cinema history". A movie with so much hype and marketing precedeing its release really cant help but be placed in "Greatest" catagory's.
Personaly I would even place TFOTR in my top 30. But hey, for the 20yo and under club, that was so critical for the movie to make money, its no doubt sure to wow. YaKnow it seemed that in the first few day's after its release people seemed afraid to say anything critical about it. Thats how powerful the media, and marketing, is in our lives. And Time-Warner is betting on it! But "The greatest movie ever"? Oh-boy thats a stretch. Can that distinction really be "BOUGHT" by a Corporate-media-marketing mega-monster ? I guess time will tell..................One |
12-28-2001, 08:05 PM | #12 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: rural oklahoma
Posts: 324
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I think that its true that people were afraid to say anything critical partially because of the hype but mostly I would say its because we all love the book. We all wanted it to be as good as the book.
I would certainly classify it as the best movie I've ever seen... but I guess I am biased from reading the books...oh well..in any case it was certainly good.
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"We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm. |
12-29-2001, 01:20 PM | #13 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
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I stand by my assertion, my fellow hobbit. To me, this IS the greatest film in history. And hype had absolutely nohing to do with it.
The only factors influencing me on this assertion was its effect on me. Not because the special effects were the greatest ever created [they weren't, admittedly], not because the screenplay was the best adaptation of the book [it had its faults], nor because it faithfully regurgitated verbatim the books on the screen [it certainly did not]. It is the TOTAL package which I feel deserves such exemplary compliments. The balance between the story and the audience, the dance between the purist and the studio head, the intricate ballet of set design, costuming and acting are the telling factors here for me. I admit: I went into this film with an open mind. This may separate me from some of my fellow Tolkien lovers. I did not go into the movie with the intention of finding every possible fault I could identify. I went in to see how Mr. Peter Jackson told the story in his own way. And I was pleasantly surprised. No, it is not the Fellowship of the Ring word for word. It is an opening of a door into what some of us feel is OUR world. It is an invitation to those out there to join us, to take up the quest of the ringbearer and journey to the cracks of Orodruin as we all have. It does not describe the entire house, outlet by outlet, crown moulding by crown moulding; it paints the doorway in beautiful colors, in captivating beauty and depth, and points the way to the open threshhold to those who knew nothing of the rooms and passages beyond. I DO stand by my assertion. This is the greatest film in history. And no studio is paying me to say that. Nor is a Burger King cup or action figure. I make the assertion out of sincere assessment of a work of great cunning, skillful mastery and deep subtlety. In my humble, hobbitlike opinion.
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. |
12-29-2001, 03:19 PM | #14 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: The Golden Wood
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Re: Best film ever?
Bropous: You must not see many movies. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but I have to agree wtth Ringbearer - hardly the Best movie in history. And certainly not the best film I`ve ever seen! There are many others that would beat this out. There just wasn`t enough substance between scenes / places to tie the story together. Yes, the action sequences were great and the scenery and visuals were stunning, but there wasn`t a lot of substance in between scenes. The transitions from place to place were very choppy. First you`re here, then there, then to another scene very quickly. A lot of jumping about. TOO much at times. It needed more dialog and interaction of characters to better tie the scenes together. I sorely missed the developing friendship between Legolas and Gimli - and between the other characters as well. I hope they pick up more on that in the other films. I wished they had included the blindfold scene and gifts scene of the Lothorien segment. They would have added much to the Lothlorien part. There wasn`t enough of the Lothlorien segment shown IMO. I would gladly have given up a few minutes of action and some shots of the orcs for more dialog and character material throughout the film.
Yes, it was a good movie, but IMO certainly not the best film ever. It would not make my top 10 best list. But that`s just one Elf`s opinion. Last edited by galadriel1 : 12-29-2001 at 03:27 PM. |
12-29-2001, 04:52 PM | #15 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
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Well, galadriel, I imagine one gets into trouble whenever asserting that any one thing is the "best" of its variety.
Quite contrary to your initial assertion, I have seen rather a few movies in my time. I'm not the type who really cares all that much for the mass-market film, and am pretty darned selective in my movie viewing. I guess my placement of this as the greatest film in history reflects more than just the three hours on screen, it also takes into account the massive effort taken to bring this masterwork to the screen, from the glassblowers' art to the armourer's, from the 48,000 pieces of swords and armor to the incredibly complex and detailed set design and attention to detail involved. Not just the "shadows on the screen", as Ian McKellam might phrase it, but the "ghosts behind the screen" who made it all possible. In listening to the interviews of all involved in the imagining, creation and performing of Mr. Jackson's vision, I come away with the feeling that all involved felt that this was truly a singular experience in filmmaking. I am unable to think of any film I know of which has had such love and heart poured into it, such attention to detail and dedication to the project as this one. We can respectfully disagree as to whether this is the best film in history, and I guess I had hoped most would understand the subtext of "for me" in my statement. Rating film is absolutely subjective, as I am sure you would agree, and though you may have seen far more films than I, we can still rate different films as the greatest movie of all time, and BOTH of us can be correct. In this category, I am sure we are. Again, in this humble hobbit's opinion.
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. |
12-29-2001, 05:05 PM | #16 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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Regardless, I think we'll all agree that this is the best live action adaption of the lord of hte rings books to date.
Right?
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
12-29-2001, 05:09 PM | #17 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
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(smile) I would certainly second your assertion, Wayfarer!
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. |
12-29-2001, 10:13 PM | #18 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA
Posts: 561
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Ditto! hey Wayfarer...how did you get the title, "Inside Joker"?
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Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty! |
12-30-2001, 04:57 PM | #19 | |
Fowl Administrator
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I might as well copy and paste my general review onto this thread...
Quote:
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12-30-2001, 05:15 PM | #20 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: London
Posts: 217
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not "best film ever" but stiill amazing. Still really, really, amazing. I loved it.
(and, er, Darth? Three three hour films back to back? you are insane. But don't worry, you're in good company. I think I will join you when you do that! ) Ok, yes this is me. I think I'll put this at the end of all my posts today. I always seem to do this. I enthusiastically post loads every day for a while and then suddenly, I'm gone. I don't know why, it just happens. This time I had tried to stay away from the net altogether as I have important exams coming up in, er, two weeks... I even tried to not read (that lasted exactly six days before I gave up) but it doesn't work. So this is how it works with me. Sorry people. I won't be here for a while, if I can just manage to stay away |