Nations' Positions on Torture

[Lief Erikson]

Here, we can post the torture discussion which is not related to whether it's right or wrong, whether it should be done or not. There is another torture thread for that purpose: http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=12758
This thread is a highly related subject though, and some cross-over may at times be necessary. In any case, here people can discuss US torture policy, Middle East torture policy, these brutal initiation rites that seem occasionally to happen in England, China's torture policy, historical torture policy, documents from leaders historical or recent about torture, etc.

[Insidious Rex]

oh boy two torture threads...

"Well three cheers for McCain. Looks like he got Bush to cave in on torturing. I bet Cheney is pretty POed."

[Lotesse]

I know; what is it with Lief and torture?? Lief you're really creeping me out here...

[Insidious Rex]

I think its one of those silly topic splicing things. Not an obsession necessarily.

[rohirrim TR]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

I know; what is it with Lief and torture?? Lief you're really creeping me out here...

LOL , maybe Lief is going to come over to the dark side, except the EMPIRE has had no torture policy since the demise of Admiral Tarkin, we do have painless, lovable friendly sith mind control however.

[Lotesse]

No, he actually made a new thread for discussing a different angle of, you guessed it, TORTURE! Whatever. Torture is barbaric and devalues & lowers a society, rather than elevating it. It's disgusting, but sometimes in a C.I.A. situation where the stakes are very high and there seems to be no other way to exact the truth from the enemy, well... but it should never be known to the public what the C.I.A. has to do. And these disgusting displays at Abu Graib or however you spell that prison in Iraq - jesus wept! Disgusting and base and low and backward. No excuse for that crap.

[rohirrim TR]

I can't help but get the weird feeling that that should have been in the other thread.

but you actually put your finger on something that really bugs me, the fact that we hear about all the stuff the CIA does I don't want to know what the CIA does I doubt the CIA lets the media tell us what they really do anyway so don't even bother writing about it. oops sorry off topic.

On TOPIC
the U.S.A does not utilize true torture; when we need someone tortured we let Egypt have them and they interrogate them with their, shall we say, more persuavise methods. whether that is ethical or not might be an interesting discussion as well but sadly, probably doesn't belong in this thread.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by rohirrim TR

I can't help but get the weird feeling that that should have been in the other thread.

I can't help but get the weird feeling that you're SO RIGHT about that, rohirrim. Why two threads about torture????

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by rohirrim TR

On TOPIC
the U.S.A does not utilize true torture; when we need someone tortured we let Egypt have them and they interrogate them with their, shall we say, more persuavise methods. whether that is ethical or not might be an interesting discussion as well but sadly, probably doesn't belong in this thread.

BUT, this struck me as quite gently humourous, rTR!! Because no offense kiddo, but how the heck would YOU happen to know about what the Central Intelligence Agency's modus operandi on this sort of thing would be?

[brownjenkins]

not this torturous discussion again!

[rohirrim TR]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

BUT, this struck me as quite gently humourous, rTR!! Because no offense kiddo, but how the heck would YOU happen to know about what the Central Intelligence Agency's modus operandi on this sort of thing would be?

great point right there, and thats what it boils down to, us civilians JUST DON'T KNOW what the CIA, or Mossad, or British Intelligence Really does, we like to think we do from reading Tom Clancy and stuff but truth is we don't know what the truth is, which could become depressing if it wasn't humorous.
so that would kind of make this threads initial intent mutually exclusive to discussion if we don't know what our country does, how can we even begin to discuss it? Although one could argue that that problem has never stopped anyone before.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by rohirrim TR

so that would kind of make this threads initial intent mutually exclusive to discussion if we don't know what our country does, how can we even begin to discuss it?

VERY good point. EsPECially in two threads, no less.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

No, he actually made a new thread for discussing a different angle of, you guessed it, TORTURE!

I made this thread because people were dropping all sorts of off-topics into the other one. People plainly wanted to talk about US policy, and it was off-topic to the other thread. I don't actually have any major plans for posting in this thread, but I want people to have an alternative to my other thread, when they have other statements about torture that they want to make.

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Whatever. Torture is barbaric and devalues & lowers a society, rather than elevating it. It's disgusting, but sometimes in a C.I.A. situation where the stakes are very high and there seems to be no other way to exact the truth from the enemy, well...

That view is more on-topic for the other thread. I was thinking the same way, when I made the other thread. I did so because I was wondering whether when saving lives, torture might be justified. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't, however. That's my view, now.

Originally Posted by Lotesse

And these disgusting displays at Abu Graib or however you spell that prison in Iraq - jesus wept! Disgusting and base and low and backward. No excuse for that crap.

Definitely agreed.

Again, I created this thread largely in order to shield the other from off-topic statements. I hope that makes me seem a bit less freaky. If it doesn't, oh well .

[Butterbeer]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

not this torturous discussion again!

you wanna see the fishy goings on in lesbians, gay and bi thread ...

[Tessar]

Believe me Lotesse, there's hardly a mean bone in Lief's body . He's not some torture-crazed stalker or whatever .

[Lotesse]

Well, I know THAT, you big silly goose! I was just ribbin' Lief a bit, all in good humour! Silly goose... Anyways, for once Lief & I happen to share the same views on this torturous topic. It's a little rare, and actually quite nice, when the ol' Liefer & crazy Lotsy agree on something.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

It's a little rare, and actually quite nice, when the ol' Liefer & crazy Lotsy agree on something.

Well, we also agree about racism being sick. That's another plus.

I sometimes feel very glad that friendship does not require complete agreement. Where I live, I'm everywhere surrounded by liberals. Here on Entmoot, at church, at college. I'm very, very used to being in the middle of complete disagreement from all directions, by this time. Though I often think, wistfully, that agreement would be a pleasant thing .

Sometimes, from your posts, I really can't tell whether you've gone back to hating me or not! That's simply because you always express yourself so very frankly. It often makes me feel rather on edge .

[Lotesse]

I tend to have that effect on people. No worries, mate!