How big was Rivendale?

[Sween]

We all know from the lord of the rings and the Hobbit that Rivendale was a wonderfully place (sams favorite). But how big was it? It was not mearly Elronds house as from the writings may be thought it was established By Elrond after the fall of Eragion after the invasion of Sauron it was deemed important to maintain a stronghold west of the misty mountians.

It was a Noldorian establishment with many of the fugatives of Eragion flying to it (bassically all the serviors of that war we saved by Elrond)! In its first building it didnt have the power of the ring protecting it sauron had allready taken up the one ring and therefore elrond could not use the ring directally (opr could he i dont know do you need to wear the ring to harness it effects thats another debate that we will keep out of here)! it mist therefore of had some defences towers,walls etc none of these are described in either the Hobbit or LOTR!

Another one of my faciantions of tolkiens world has allways been size and numbers. Rivendale must of been a pretty large place it was considered a strong hold and after the last allience the elves that chose to remain departed lindon to be close to Elrond after the fall of Gil Galad. It also played host to the larger part of the forces of the last allience at some point its noted they camped at Rivendale.

In the book and any drawings or artwork and yes even the movie it is protrayed as pretty much just been Elronds house (well more of a mansion but you know) but was it really more of a city?

Did the elven folk act like what is presumed to be the the fate of the northan Dundain and live in the forest around the point?

[Wayfarer]

A thoughtful, tolkien-related post by /Sween/?

Well, Sween you'd be suprised how much thought I've put into this lately.

I always got the impression that the house itself was huge, one mansion large enough to house a small towns worth of inhabitants.

"It's a big house this, and very peculiar," said Sam. "Always a bit more to discover, and no knowing what you'll find round a corner."

Sam led him along several passages and down many steps...

I picture it as being several stories high with hundreds of rooms. My favorite depiction of the house is that of Rodney Matthews.

However, Tolkien's illustration makes it seem rather small.

[Wayfarer]

Oh. Check here for lots of pictures which I've been looking at, and some text descs. :P

[Wayfarer]

Also, because I'm a niggler: Rivendell. Not dale.

[Sween]

Now now wayfarer i may come across as a drunken idiot but i do love my tolkien. I was reading an artyical by Martin Martinez about the last allience and it claimed they spent 3 years ( http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/69544)in Rivendell (got me spelling right this time i hope) training and getting things ready for war. Rember this is the largest post Brelandic force second maybe only to that of the Valars!

Surely at one point in time it wasnt so much a small coloney more a small nation or region more like Lorien is protrayed!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Oh. Check here for lots of pictures which I've been looking at, and some text descs. :P

Ooooo, I like the one by the brothers Hildebrandt, but even in that one, the house seems kind of small.

[Artanis]

I've always assumed Elrond's house was one of many houses in Rivendell, though it should be, and probably was, the largest. But I should think the population was not that large. It was a narrow valley. Not like the woodlands of Lórien or Greenwood.

[Ruinel]

The Ford at Bruinen is my favorite. Very nice. Really shows the true Frodo.

I also believed that Elrond's home was one of many, although I really can't say why I believed this. Perhaps it is my preconceived notions that a community of people live separately in their own homes. This may not have been Tolkien's intentions. I am not sure.

[azalea]

Well, it's refered to as "The Last Homely House," so I never thought of it as being enormous. I think it would seem really big to hobbits, but would be about the size of a manor-house to us (big, but not as big as a palace). Rivendell in my estimation would maybe be like a country manor -- the big house is where Elrond and his folk lived, and then there would have been smaller houses around where others lived, and then their land would have surrounded the group of houses (which would be fairly spread out).

[Bombadillo]

Rivendell is the only place in LotR that I just can't picture right. The impression I got in The Hobbit was that is was a small meadow between two hills with a tiny house and a little brook running through. Of course this picture changed after the movie and I saw how wrong I was.

But look here: The Pictures by JRR Tolkien Himself, because who can show it better?

[Lady of Rohan]

Neh. I always thought of Rivendell (with Elrond's home being refered to as "The Last Homely House") as just one home, in a large meadow. I never really thought of it as an actual town/city/village (most likely becuase Tolkien never mentioned any other houses, or even buildings, I think (at least not up to where I have read (which is Chapt 14 Silmarillion)).... or did he?).

[azalea]

Well, there had to have been SOMEWHERE for all those other elves to live, didn't there? I guess it depends on if we mean Rivendell (Imladris) is the name of just the house, or if it is the name of the "land" around it.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
[B]Rodney Matthews.

Elves are Japanese? Or are those mushrooms?

I like the one by the brothers Hildebrandt'

Very quaint, like a gingerbread house. I like that one a lot. In fact, I like most of them.

But my favourite is either Naismith's, the one from METW CCG, or the lush green photo of the actual location.

[Sween]

perhaps my origional post was somewhat influnced by the Martinez artical but that guy seem to know what hes on about! Where Nolideli at these days when you need him?

Rivendell i imigin is much like it is described in the books but it seems to me that the books are in contrast with the funcion that it was used for. It was in all intents and purposes a blockcade to stop orcs free moving over the misty mountians. In the same way Lorien was a blockcade to any free movement up the east side of the misty mountians places of strength to get down to Gondor!

To fullfill a lot of its purposes (well at first building) it would of had to of been a lot bigger!

[Artanis]

I'm thinking of Rivendell (and Lórien) as a refuge rather than a stronghold. A hidden place. It was not my impression that the Rivendell Elves were much engaged in orc hunts, that was more of a Ranger's task.

I think Rivendell/Imladris is the name of the land, not the house. Doesn't the name 'Rivendell' mean something like 'cleft valley'?

[Wayfarer]

Now now wayfarer i may come across as a drunken idiot but i do love my tolkien

Hee! Indeed. Why else would you be here?

I like the one by the brothers Hildebrandt

ReallY? I don't like them. At all. But that's just taste.

Well, there had to have been SOMEWHERE for all those other elves to live, didn't there?

Yes. Presumably they lived in the house as well.

After all, the text does show us two large halls that seated possibly hundreds of people, sleeping quarters on the ground floor and more on the upper floor.

It was at /least/ the size of a typical inn, remember, because everyone who stopped by was allowed to stay. And the fact that it is referred to as Rivendell and the House of Elrond implies that the house was basically all there was there to see.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Artanis
I'm thinking of Rivendell (and Lórien) as a refuge rather than a stronghold. A hidden place. It was not my impression that the Rivendell Elves were much engaged in orc hunts, that was more of a Ranger's task.

I think Rivendell/Imladris is the name of the land, not the house. Doesn't the name 'Rivendell' mean something like 'cleft valley'?

I definitely agree, they seemed to me much more of a refuse, or place of rest. And yes, 'riven' is similar to 'split' and 'dell' I believe is a kind of valley, or maybe just a valley. Of course, in the lovely tongue that once was English.

[Wayfarer]

And I'll bet you all thought it was just the sequel to Myst. ];-)

[Falagar]

'Rivendell' actually sounds a little Norwegian: Riven-revet (Norwegian for cloven) and dell-dal (Norwegian for valley)

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Falagar
'Rivendell' actually sounds a little Norwegian: Riven-revet (Norwegian for cloven) and dell-dal (Norwegian for valley)

Heh. That's a nice twist.
(Isn't it also funny about Vestfold )