02-06-2007, 07:15 PM | #1 | |
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Global Warming Debate
So the general consensus is that it IS happenening, and here at least, the debate is whether it is man-made.
My personal opinion is that when the earth warmed in previous times, it was not because of the SUVs. So I guess I'm among the doubters that it is man-made at least. Also would like to post this link: http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c...n_id=&Issue_id and this one too: http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c...n_id=&Issue_id I also think there is room to doubt that it is happening at all, and whatever this weird weather is, it may not be weird, it may be that we only have Al Gore fresh in our minds. Quote:
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02-06-2007, 07:26 PM | #2 | ||
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There is no debate Hector, humans have definitely contributed to global warming.
Even the UN agrees on this! There is no room for doubt about the existence of global warming either. Sorry bud, but it really is happing. It's quite a disaster and I wish it wasn't happening, but it really is. About the first link: those guys sound like a bunch of rent-a-scientists to me. About the second link: Bill Nye the science guy and a weather channel host are probably not the most qualified individuals to debate global warming. Personally I'd rather see publishing scientists who are up to date on the issue debating. Here's a good link.
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02-06-2007, 07:34 PM | #3 |
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I was thinking of making a thread about it, but I see you've beaten me too it.
While the earth has been through warmer and cooler periods in the past, I do think humans have a hand in this one. I'm not saying we're the only ones to blame, but if the warming had been a recurring thread, human behaviour certainly augmented it. The weather and climate are tricky and difficult subjects. Never mind Al Gore, sir David Attenborough has made some pretty damning documentaries about it too, and on conservation, he's one man who's opinion I trust. Not to mention that his documentary chilled my blood and not in a good way. That reminds me, I still have to watch the conclusion of the BBC's climate change computer project where they had dozens of computers running different climate modules.
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02-06-2007, 11:10 PM | #4 | |||||
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There is plenty of room for doubt, and if you ask me, saying that there isn't is comparable to Nazism, IMO "NO! There is no room for debate! The World IS flat!!!" Quote:
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And of course he is now cursed by the same organization he headed. I just want you to know that the full consensus is not only on one side of the scientists, while the rest of them are just whackos. Heck, Michael Crichton thinks its a huge scam. Amateur scientist there, though he did go to medical school, but the point it is that you can hardly pin HIM down as an "ignorant fundamentalist".
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02-06-2007, 11:14 PM | #5 |
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I honestly don't think humans, with the very small amount of space [comparitively] we inhabit on earth, have the capacity to generate enough of a difference to our planet's weather.
Sure, in smog filled Chicago man-made global warming seems a reality, but when you're out in some super-high African mountain, I think you'd start to realize that we sure think we're big stuff when we aren't. That is not to excuse smog pollution, I'm just as much for reducing polluting emissions as anyone else.
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02-06-2007, 11:27 PM | #6 |
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There is no debate Hector. (((((((echo)))))))))
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02-07-2007, 02:20 AM | #7 | ||||||||||||
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I didn't say that to annoy you, it's just that responsible, reputable scientists have reached a general consensus that global warming is happening, and that humans have influenced it. So there isn't much to debate on whether or not global warming is happening. Quote:
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I generally try not to quash debate, or say that there is only one way to think. In this case though, humans are contributing to global warming, and global warming is happening. It is akin to insisting the world approximates a sphere. There is no debate there either. Quote:
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1. CO2 accumulates in the atmosphere, so it's the result of many years of pollution, not just the current year, that is sitting in the atmosphere. The property of CO2 that contributes to global warming, as you probably know, is that they do not allow heat from the Earth to radiate. Instead, the radiation is trapped inside the atmosphere, which is why it's called the "Greenhouse effect" - because this is the same effect of the glass in a greenhouse. 2. Humans have a truly amazing capacity to dump CO2 into the atmosphere. Coal-burning power plants are one of the worst offenders. I'm looking at you China, and Ontario, and hundreds of places all over the world. Quote:
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02-07-2007, 04:37 AM | #8 |
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In my view those arguments are completely idiotic. SUVs in the Middle Ages. Get a grip man.
You can't have 100% certaintly about something like this. The oil lobby has successfully exploited this to undermine any efforts to date to do anything about it. In the main, it's only people who don't understand science that are fooled by these tactics. I hope the Right is satisfied, greedily supping at the oil teat while the flood waters rise. The debate is over. The question now must be what can be done. |
02-07-2007, 06:04 AM | #9 | |||
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Aw give Hector a break man. His arguments aren't completely idiotic, many people have probably thought the same thing. If we happen to know something about global warming, we can share this knowledge without giving him too hard of a time. </Mom lecture>
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02-07-2007, 07:07 AM | #10 |
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Perhaps I should make clear that what I think is idiotic is the argument that the ME had no SUVs/fossil fuels therefore current climate change can't be due to them.
And in the current context, the act of raising the issue is a tactic for doing nothing. Look, see, they've even got us doing it. |
02-07-2007, 11:33 AM | #11 | |||||
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So what do you mean get a grip? Do you know what caused the warming then? Quote:
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So before you slapdash more assertions and certainties in the vein of THEDEBATEISOVER Gaffer, give me some REAL reasons why this time Global Warming is man-made. I don't know if you guys remember, but there was some fairly recent news that came out saying that cows, of all people, caused more global warming than suvs. It was then that I knew that global warming, at least man-made, was junk. I'll look up the link...
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02-07-2007, 11:37 AM | #12 | ||
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02-07-2007, 11:46 AM | #13 | ||||||
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Temperatures during the 1930's were warmer than they have been in the past few years. Quote:
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02-07-2007, 12:38 PM | #14 |
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Hector....you amaze and depress me. Honestly....Since you've started posting a lot in general messages, (you never used to) I'm getting the impression you briefly pull your head out of the sand to read Mallard Fillmore, and then quickly stick it back in again. Sure, I'm a liberal atheist, and you're a whatever you are.....but seriously dude, Get a grip is right. I sincerely believe everything the Gaffer has posted......and imo, it is shameful to waste anymore time in denial about global warming (Hell. it was shameful 20 years ago! ). Enjoy the oily milk.
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02-07-2007, 12:54 PM | #15 |
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Hector, you really need to read about the latest Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report.
Brief overview News report with more details The IPCC reviews the complex body of evidence on climate change and updates it over time. NB: The US delegation supported its conclusions. Imagine if Gore had got in, how much further down the road to doing something about it we would be. Still, at least Dubya has sniffed the opportunity to hand tax dollars to yet more of his mates er I mean acknowledge the problem in his recent state of the union address. |
02-07-2007, 01:12 PM | #16 |
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http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question...5071844AAANvEB
I have to say I agree with Hector here. If it is occuring, it is most likely not all our fault. The sum total of all carbon dioxide produced by human activity is aproximately 3% of the carbon dioxide produced by the other processes that make up the carbon cycle. (thanks for the interesting quote in your first post Hector. what exactly are you quoting though?) Or are they all just various quotes, and you put it all together yourself. Sorry, I'm not very experienced at online debating. This is the first time I've put a link into a post, lets see if it works. http://www.apologiaonline.com/conf/ecohyst.pdf
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02-07-2007, 01:54 PM | #17 |
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So what? Cycle: things come and go. Add a bit to the plus side (emissions) and take something away form the minus side (cutting down forests), and pretty soon you've got a build-up. Guess what? Observations show CO2 is building up. So I can take your factoid and make an argument in favour of climate change out of it.
You see, those sorts of factoids mean absolutely nothing, but are routinely pulled out of context and paraded around to cast doubt in our minds. The people who have looked at all of the scientific evidence in an impartial way say it is "over 90% likely that current climate change is being caused by human activity". |
02-07-2007, 02:15 PM | #18 | |
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So the build up does not neccesarily come from humans. If you take from that 3% the cooling gases we add, would there be a significant change in the greenhouse gases added to the air? What would be a significant change anyway? From the standpoint of the greenhouse effect, we really do not know.
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02-07-2007, 02:47 PM | #19 |
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I'm sorry TF, I do not believe your quote. It sounds more like wishful thinking than actual statistical science.
Hello!.....Everything is melting alarmingly fast. This is an extremely well documented fact. Ecosystems are rapidly being alterd/destroyed, the atmospheric scale is unbalanced.... and tipping dangerously far. Humans need to quickly stop adding to the tipping scale, and do what they can to balance it again....if they care.
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02-07-2007, 04:14 PM | #20 | ||
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btw, thanks for the help Tolkienfan
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