04-11-2008, 07:58 PM | #1 | |
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Gildor Inglorion
Continuing this from a thread where we got rather off topic...
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian Last edited by Curufin : 04-11-2008 at 08:00 PM. |
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04-11-2008, 08:05 PM | #2 |
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There are worse Elves than Gildor, I think. Although his counsel wasn't exactly very helpful at times, the guy meant well.
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04-11-2008, 08:06 PM | #3 |
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See, I was madly in love with him for a long time. I really like the guy. He's just...the epitome of what an Elf should be.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
04-12-2008, 04:26 AM | #4 | ||
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Gildor and his company of HIGH ELVES (who live and have great power in both the Seen and the Unseen Words, who can openly fight nazgul) could have escorted the hobbits to Rivendell safely. It is like a whole company of Glorfindels. Gildor knew it, but still he sent the hobbits on their way alone and returned to his singing under the stars (quite an important business as compared to lowly mortal matters).
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And what would have happened if Glorfindel the Elf shared this attitude? Now compare it with the words of Barliman, the funny, fat, forgetful innkeeper: Quote:
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04-12-2008, 05:01 AM | #5 |
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The question remains if Butterbur's would have still been that helpfull if it had meant going along and protect the Hobbits, instead of just getting them a pack-horse... I'm guessing not.
The Hobbits didn't look that frightened either at the time with the meeting with Gildor, this was early enough in the adventure. At the time the Hobbits didn't need protection yet, and stealth might have gotten them further instead of being escorted by a whole squard of singing Elves.
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04-12-2008, 05:26 AM | #6 | |||
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Getting them a pack horse and especially keeping his mouth shut (the latter must have been hard) was all Barley was realistically capable of. And it might have turned to be quite dangerous - don't forget that the very angry Witch King and 6 nazgul passed through Bree the very next night, abandoning all secrecy, throwing down the gates. If the WK only stopped for a moment to search the Pony, it would have turned quite ill for Barley. Quote:
A whole squard of singing HIGH Elves would have been a perfect protection from the nazgul. And Gildor did send a messenger to Rivendell to warn Elrond, who arrived nine days before the hobbits. Now why couldn't Gildor et al go with them? Quote:
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04-12-2008, 05:52 AM | #7 | ||
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04-12-2008, 08:29 AM | #8 |
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>> The Elves have their own labours and their own sorrows, and they are little concerned in the ways of Hobbits, or of any other creatures on earth.
If nothing else, this expression of isolationism is certainly common in "regular earth," too. Though I do agree with Earniel as well: it is perilous to judge on the basis of snippets of 3rd-hand conversations. This doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't try, only that we proceed humbly.
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04-12-2008, 08:53 AM | #9 | ||||
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I think Gildor's inactions are pretty much indefensible. He knew that Frodo was carrying a "great burden without guidance". He knew that Frodo was being pursued by Sauron's greatest servants. He knew that Gandalf didn't show up when expected. In short, he knew that something very important was happening, that Frodo was in the middle of it, and that he was in deep trouble. The speed with which Gildor's messenger reached Rivendell is evidence of Gildor's knowledge, I think.
I used to believe that Gildor's inaction was due purely to apathy (see the quote Gordis gave), but I wonder now what role fear played. I don't mean fear of the Nazgul as much as fear of "meddling in the affairs of wizards" and mostly fear (or at least reluctance) of doing something. Quote:
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They just barely made it to Buckland and had to be rescued by Bombadil twice while alone vs seeing a Nazgul run away when the Elves came near. I think they were unquestionably better off in the Elves company. |
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04-12-2008, 10:19 AM | #10 | ||||||
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I agree with CAB on all points. (Hi, CAB )
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Noldor used to be ambitious in the First Age, but not anymore (even Galadriel, the most ambitious one). I don't think they would be in danger simply escorting the Ring. And Men did have even worse track record on controlling their ambition, but that didn't prevent Aragorn from escorting the hobbits almost all the way. Quote:
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As for "regular earth," imagine a large group of hikers meeting three lost children in the woods far from any civilization. The boys say that they have lost their dad and are being pursued by mounted killers. Now the hikers give them something to eat and abandon them, not wishing to burden themselves with the other's problems or to change the own route. How would you judge the hikers? Probably they did nothing criminal per se, but they were hardly nice either. And if the children were killed, that would be largely their fault. Is that not so? Last edited by Gordis : 04-12-2008 at 10:39 AM. |
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04-12-2008, 10:28 AM | #11 | |||||||
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Nazgúl 1: Where are those rascally hobbits and the Ring? Nazgúl 2: Hmm...maybe over there, surrounded by ten giant flaming torches???
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04-12-2008, 11:02 AM | #12 | ||||
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Sure the nazgul would be aware of the group of High Elves heading to Rivendell. Maybe they would understant that they carried the Ring. So what? Could they attack them? - hardly. They were only Nine, without any orcs or trolls at their disposal. They have repeatedly retreated seeing the lone Glorfindel. And don't forget how the nazgul hated gymns to Elbereth. Last edited by Gordis : 04-12-2008 at 11:18 AM. |
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04-12-2008, 11:24 AM | #13 | |
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When Beren called on Finrod, it was not just some advice he received. |
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04-12-2008, 11:28 AM | #14 | |||||
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In addition, they wouldn't have met up with Strider, which would have caused a mess of its own.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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04-12-2008, 11:31 AM | #15 | |
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As for Beren - Gildor hadn't made any oath to Frodo and co. Not as if he's got to repay any hobbits for saving his life.
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04-12-2008, 11:49 AM | #16 | ||||||||
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2. Are you suggesting that the Elves would only have gotten in the hobbits' way in a confrontation with the Nazgul. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Quote:
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04-12-2008, 11:57 AM | #17 | ||||||
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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04-12-2008, 12:10 PM | #18 | |
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04-12-2008, 12:15 PM | #19 | |
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My favorite character is Fëanor - I empathise and sympathise with him because of his faults, not in spite of them. And this carries over to the rest of the Ñoldor as well.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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04-12-2008, 12:20 PM | #20 | |
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Last edited by CAB : 04-12-2008 at 12:21 PM. |
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