The N-word and ghetto sadness/stupidity

[The Telcontarion]

OK, I will start this new thread with a link to the beggining of the old one:

http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...3&page=1&pp=20

And the last 2 relivant posts:

http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...6&postcount=93

http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...4&postcount=94

As for post 94, hectorberlioz, I would like to shake your hand too.

Now, we may continue.

[afro-elf]

Actually, I was going to respond to that post until the baiting started. But once you stooped to that tactic you I decided not to sully myself in that manner of dialouge.

I will consider responding in the future if you do not attempt to bait me.

AE

[Sister Golden Hair]

Administrative Warning- This thread discussion is expected to be conducted in accordance with Entmoot's posting policies. No Flaming, Flamebaiting, or Off Topic posts will be permitted. Any such posts will be deleted on sight and the thread may be closed permenantly depending on the severity of the violation.

Please proceed in a civil fashion and respect the opinions and views of your fellow posters.

[Lizra]

My post was not chopped liver.....

[Spock]

Ahhh, 24hrs of peace "in the ghetto"........, turns up Elvis.

[afro-elf]

I just saw a great film today:

http://favelarising.com/default.php

Its about change from within.

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by afro-elf

I just saw a great film today:

http://favelarising.com/default.php

Its about change from within.

Fro-bro, again I would like for you to address the points I brought up.

[Butterbeer]

Camomile tea often settles the stomach you know ...

(sorry SGH ... anyway spock started it!!! a-ha-haa! ... Elvis has left the building ... )

[afro-elf]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

Fro-bro, again I would like for you to address the points I brought up.

Thank you for asking in this manner. I will answer HOWEVER, it will not anytime soon.

AE

[Bombadillo]

Finally! I only come by and lurk once in a while and now I catch this thread open! I have a bit of input, too... later...

[Insidious Rex]

An interesting article by Juan Williams in the Post today:

Banish The Bling
A Culture of Failure Taints Black America

By Juan Williams
Monday, August 21, 2006

Have we taken our eyes off the prize? The civil rights movement continues, but the struggle today is not so much in the streets as in the home -- and with our children. If systemic racism remains a reality, there is also a far more sinister obstacle facing African American young people today: a culture steeped in bitterness and nihilism, a culture that is a virtual blueprint for failure.

The emphasis on young people in today's civil rights struggle is rooted in demographics. America's black, Hispanic and immigrant population is far younger than its white population. Those young people of color live in the big cities and rely on big-city public schools.

With 50 percent of Hispanic children and nearly 70 percent of black children born to single women today these young people too often come from fractured families where there is little time for parenting. Their search for identity and a sense of direction is undermined by a twisted popular culture that focuses on the "bling-bling" of fast money associated with famous basketball players, rap artists, drug dealers and the idea that women are at their best when flaunting their sexuality and having babies.

In Washington, where a crime wave is tied to these troubled young souls, the city reacts with a curfew. It is a band-aid. The real question is how one does battle with the culture of failure that is poisoning young people -- and do so without incurring the wrath of critics who say we are closing our eyes to existing racial injustice and are "blaming the victim."

Recently Bill Cosby has once again run up against these critics. In 2004, on the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education decision, Cosby took on that culture of failure in a speech that was a true successor to W.E.B. DuBois's 1903 declaration that breaking the color line of segregation would be the main historical challenge for 20th-century America. In a nation where it is getting tougher and tougher to afford a house, health insurance and a college education -- in other words, to attain solid middle-class status -- Cosby decried the excuses for opting out of the competition altogether.

Cosby said that the quarter of black Americans still living in poverty are failing to hold up their end of a deal with history when they don't take advantage of the opportunities created by the Supreme Court's Brown decision and the sacrifices of civil rights leaders from Martin Luther King Jr. to Thurgood Marshall and Malcolm X. Those leaders in the 1950s and '60s opened doors by winning passage of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and fair housing laws. Their triumphs led to the nationwide rise in black political power on school boards and in city halls and Congress.

Taken as a whole, that era of stunning breakthroughs set the stage for black people, disproportionately poor and ill-educated because of a history of slavery and segregation, to reach new heights -- freed from the weight of government-sanctioned segregation. It also created a national model of social activism to advance the rights of women, Hispanics, gays and others.

Cosby asked the chilling question: "What good is Brown " and all the victories of the civil rights era if nobody wants them? A generation after those major civil rights victories, black America is experiencing alarming dropout rates, shocking numbers of children born to single mothers and a frightening acceptance of criminal behavior that has too many black people filling up the jails. Where is the focus on taking advantage of new opportunities to advance and to close the racial gap in educational and economic achievement?

Incredibly, Cosby's critics don't see the desperate need to pull a generational fire alarm to warn people about a culture of failure that is sabotaging any chance for black people in poverty to move up and help their children reach the security of economic and educational achievement. Not one mainstream civil rights group picked up on his call for marches and protests against bad parenting, drug dealers, hate-filled rap music and failing schools.

Where is the civil rights groundswell on behalf of stronger marriages that will allow more children to grow up in two-parent families and have a better chance of staying out of poverty? Where are the marches demanding good schools for those children -- and the strong cultural reinforcement for high academic achievement (instead of the charge that minority students who get good grades are "acting white")? Where are the exhortations for children to reject the self-defeating stereotypes that reduce black people to violent, oversexed "gangstas," minstrel show comedians and mindless athletes?

In order to face this century's class battles, young minds need the self-confidence that comes from examples of inspiring historical personalities, such as a black woman born into slavery who made herself a national leader, Sojourner Truth, or a black man living under rank segregation, A. Philip Randolph, who defied corporate power to break segregation in organized labor. Frederick Douglass had to teach himself how to read before standing up to defeat slavery.

These examples should empower young people to believe in themselves and to organize across racial lines and build institutions with a solid footing in the nation's political and economic power. This is real black culture, and it is based on strong families creating determined, self-reliant young people.

The defining challenge for this generation of Americans dealing with poverty is putting the next generation in a position to move even higher. Individuals must now use the opportunities made available to them by the sacrifices of past generations if they are to achieve victory in America's long and still unfinished civil rights movement.

Interesting words from a black journalist known for being fairly “liberal” on his views of politics and culture. Don’t know if I agree with every single thing he says (I still reject the notion that there is only one group responsible for the condition of minorities in this culture) but I think he raises a lot of important points about black culture and outlook today. Great strides have been made that required the countless sacrifices, both small, large, and ultimate, of so many civil rights leaders and faceless protesters during the long struggle against discrimination in the United States. Now, too many either don’t know or don’t care about this recent past of civil rights struggles and that just a generation ago many of the things they take for granted was next to impossible for their grand parents and great grand parents. The cultural amnesia of different generations is a common phenomenon of course no matter what culture you are talking about but its always disappointing to see when it happens. This isn’t to say there isn’t still discrimination in our culture. Quite clearly there is and its engrained deeper then white only water fountains or poll taxes. Its part of our psychology and certainly has had some effect on what minorities think of themselves and what whites think of minorities.

Maybe this will all play itself out in another 4 or 5 generations. Maybe materialism and disproportionate dependence is a logical offshoot to true freedom after 350 years of abject suppression and discrimination. Maybe rejection of the ‘dominant’ culture is simply the obvious course a sub group takes when its been abused and mocked and held down by said culture for the entire extent of its existence and when it has no real historical culture of its own to really rally around and identify with (like Asian, Hispanic, etc. who came from a culture that was not systematically erased by others). Maybe this is how the ship rights itself.

[hectorberlioz]

Cosby needs to be heard more often, IMO. I pretty much agree with that columnist all-around.

[The Telcontarion]

Well, let me just say as I said in the begginning, I do agree with Mr. Cosby and now this article but still there are important points that they fail to make.

Which is what I like to do, pointing out historical facts and details that tend to be over looked by those who can only comment on the surface of things; which is how things appear, not what they really are. You can't point at the victims and say it's their fault, that's just cruel.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

Well, let me just say as I said in the begginning, I do agree with Mr. Cosby and now this article but still there are important points that they fail to make.

Which is what I like to do, pointing out historical facts and details that tend to be over looked by those who can only comment on the surface of things; which is how things appear, not what they really are. You can't point at the victims and say it's their fault, that's just cruel.

That's true, but I think the important thing about Cosby's message is "teach a man to fish" instead of "give that man some dollars".

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

That's true, but I think the important thing about Cosby's message is "teach a man to fish" instead of "give that man some dollars".

That's why I agree...

[afro-elf]

Quote:
Originally Posted by afro-elf
And the biggest difference between "ghetto stupidity" and other low class cultural behavior is that the entertainmet industry makes a lot of money off

>>>>>>>Again, country music makes more money than rap, hip-hop and R&B period, so why is the latter all over the networks and airwaves and not the former.<<<<<


Because there are FAR more white people in America than black people. Whites are traditional the one’s who listen to country. So if you have a majority buying a commodity it will make more than a minority buying a commodity.

The latter is over the airways because the execs live in urban centers where Pop and Hip hop have traditionally been strong.


I doubt that in EVERY country that I have been to that there is Illuminati that has as its sole aggenda to keep "those" people down.

>>>>"EVERY country," now you are speaking in absolutes<<<<<

It seems that you are unaware that I capitalized the EVERY to so exaggerate it. The reason why was I poking fun at you for your seemingly unending conspiracies.

Relax and learn to laugh at yourself.



.>>>>>> The rich will always use whatever system, whiether illuminate or the masons or just a private club (like supreme court judges) to keep themselves where they are, and you and me serving them; simple.<<<<<<

I have never denied this. But that is not a conspiracy that is human nature.

Originally Posted by afro-elf
I doubt that there is operation "crush niggy"

>>>>>There is an operation to exploit whoever you can, and then turn the world against them so you can make them look bad, and conceal your lies and deciets and underhandedness. It doesn't matter then, if it's black people, native new zealanders, native south americans or the irish and scotts in the past (well, the scottish are stiil pist).<<<<<


Once again you missed the jest I made at your expense. Used the term operation to give it a conspiratorial tone. Again there is nothing covert about it. You seem to look at things that are in the day light and cry that they are in the shadows. They may not be overt but they are not secrets either.



Originally Posted by afro-elf
I don't have the same emotional hurdles there that I have with "ghetto" stupidity. When I see "white trash" culture I just think stupid. The race does not measure as much. But when I see Black people " embracing it it irks me.

>>>>>First of all, we do not embrass it. We had no choice in the past, but as I said before in this community which used to be the worst in NY, has very beautiful and positive things happening. I mentioned a car wash in an earlier post, the reponse was (this is typical of spock) that the run down cars in the neighborhood don't need a carwash. The cars out here are all new (not that material things are the sole sign), these people are doing very well, some are not and I can see it is because they don't participate. We have been through how much crap, you think that every person is willing to risk even one person discriminating against them, so they stay away and try to do their own thing; the stereo types in the media works both ways. If you let fear into your mind this is what happens, simple. To be sure there is a huge problem, but we didn't just wake up one day and decided to be this way, and I can't believe you would argue that point.<<<<<


WTF? That is one of the most non-sequitur replies I have seen.

That is another issue that some people have is your sequitur reasoning.

In the same lecture Tim proved that discrimination in hiring was a fact proven by a research done by MIT and the university of chicago. They used typical african american names like Shakequa and Jerome and typical white names on resumes to find out who would be employed first/more, a blakc person or white. The answer was that people with white sounding names where 50% more likely to get hired than the black sounding names, infact, having a white name was just as likely to get you in the door for an interview as a resume with a black name with 8 years of additional experience. WOW!!!

>>>>>Do you deny that?<<<<<<

Where have I EVER denied a practice such as this?

But this could again be an inside the community problem naming your child with a name that invokes stereo types. I would like to see it with equally capable blacks with non-pseudo- African names vs. whites. But also keep in mind there are more whites in the country so they would make but more of the work force.

Quote:
What that means is that, and this was shown as well by a research done by Andrew Gremmer, 240 billion dollars are lost from the economy because of this; that is so mush money - Time Wise pointed this out - that if you spent $200,000 every single day, since jesus was born you still would not have spent as much yet. That is 240 billion dollars the elite get to keep. That is what happens when people are payed less than they are worth. Don't you understand what that means, let me illustrate. When the economy goes bad people spend less, the more money people have the more they buy. Business close down when things go bad, if there where more people to spend more money then not only the existing mom and pop stores would make a profit (not just walmart - the devil) but other mom and pop stores could open up as well; maybe you could have your own business and not work for someone else. I lived in St. louis when TWA laid off hundreds of flight attendants and ramp workers and pilots, and do you know one of those flight attendants ( white person), when faced with loosing her pention and not being able to pay for her house and send her daughter to school, she simply killed herself.




That is a whole society problem not solely a black/ghetto problem which this tread WAS about. You again bring in divergent information seemingly aiming at your on TOS.

>>>>>Do you deny this, these are facts and you can't tell me this is not true, or are you trying to tell me this is no reason why we have the problems in our communities<<<<<

The thread WAS about why we have problems in the community AND I said that instead of blaming everything and everyone else that community needs to look at itself.

I have not said that the odds were NOT stacked against us. I have not said that there are not external factors. But playing the role of victim and blaming is the road to stagnation and decay.


I made a statement earlier but one of your non-sequitur responses.

Your simplified statement could be read as;

Rumsfield lied about Iraq therefore black people have problems.

That is a hilarious inference that I was again jesting you with.

Telcontarian I do not doubt your heart is in the right place but I might suggest a formal class in critical thinking or informal logic.

Here is a great site. http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/main.html


You are prone to post links

Please go there and study the ENTIRE site.

Then come back and whoop my ass.

Finally people are mostly poking fun of you because you think the lunar landings are fake and you do see a lot of conspircaries.

Hey is the Earth flat?  that is in Jest

I await your reply

AE

[Spock]

...whew!! that's some post A.E.

P.S. Nice to see you here.

[The Telcontarion]

Afro-elf, did you notice at no point in time I was jesting/joking/laughing; where in this thread could anyone find something to laugh about...

It seems that you are unaware that I capitalized the EVERY to so exaggerate it. The reason why was I poking fun at you for your seemingly unending conspiracies.

So you are playing games?

From your reply it does seem so, because nothing you said makes sense or I could take seriously:
from this statement:

Because there are FAR more white people in America than black people. Whites are traditional the one’s who listen to country. So if you have a majority buying a commodity it will make more than a minority buying a commodity.

The latter is over the airways because the execs live in urban centers where Pop and Hip hop have traditionally been strong.

To this one:

Your simplified statement could be read as;

Rumsfield lied about Iraq therefore black people have problems.

Since you are playing games and I am not, let us cease interaction, because none of this is funny to me at all.

[Lizra]

Oh come on! I'm following you both...buck up T! Let's have a meeting of the minds here ...don't cheese out when the going gets tough/real Telcontarian!

I'm reading this as......AE thinks your gloom and doom heavness is clouding your vision (and *can do* attitude), that you can't see the forest for the trees ...you have gone over the top with suspicious paranoia....What you are calling conspiracy is basic, competitive human nature played out over and over again (as it has for eons, and will continue to do, unless we all do drugs en mass again ) The better thing to do is circumnavigate it, as many have.....you have the power, singularly, to make your own choices and lead your own life.

[The Telcontarion]

Point is, I don't have time for childish games.

Or to entertain some ones callous whims, frankly I don't have the time: for meaningful discussions bearly, for playing the fool, I think not.

I have a life...

PS. If fro wants to play why not the teacup cafe...waste my time.