10-13-2005, 11:01 PM | #1 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 421
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Miss, Mrs, Ms, Mr, M
I think it is time to move on from a Mr/Ms greeting to a M greeting.
Two points: 1. in the same way Miss/Mrs was often used in a discriminating way (so Ms was born); the sexed/gendered label is used as a discriminating label 2. in letters and emails, it is often unclear whether A. White or B. Smith is a lady or a gentlement, so it would be much more convenient to reply Dear M White So let's replace the whole all greetings with M Last edited by The Wizard from Milan : 10-15-2005 at 12:54 AM. |
10-14-2005, 12:33 AM | #2 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
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Would Mr, Ms, Miss and Mrs be replaced by M?
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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10-14-2005, 01:51 AM | #3 | ||
Fair Dinkum
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,319
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10-14-2005, 08:05 AM | #4 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 421
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10-14-2005, 08:13 AM | #5 | ||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Last edited by The Wizard from Milan : 10-15-2005 at 12:54 AM. |
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10-14-2005, 08:40 AM | #6 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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i prefer first name / last name... lose the surnames entirely... everyone always ends up saying, "just call me joe" (unless their name is sam)
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10-14-2005, 08:59 AM | #7 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 516
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Lose the surname? I agree that the vast majority wind up just using first names, but that's after the initial contact. I always use a first name and a surname in the first letter or phone call without a Mr/Ms/Mrs/Miss, unless there's an honorific involved, e.g. Dear Dr So-and-So or Dear Prof Whatsyername.
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10-14-2005, 09:14 AM | #8 |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
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Well, I never really looked at this as being a sexually discriminating thing, but more of a way to determine the status of women. Mrs- signifies that this is a married woman. Miss- signifies she is single, and Ms- I believe came out after the women's movement as a title of liberation.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
10-14-2005, 10:13 AM | #9 |
The Original Corruptor
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,881
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I think it's stupid.
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10-14-2005, 10:23 AM | #10 | ||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,080
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i'm torn between BJ's response and anduril's. hmm... i like both of em, but BJ's is funnier, although anduril's is quite funny as well. no decision is a decision (not sure that that saying applies here, but it sounds good )
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10-14-2005, 03:49 PM | #11 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
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You can also call me Female White Canadian University Student [Last name] if you want Wizard from Milan, but I might give you a funny look. I would only think you were discriminating if you then said something derogatory about women, Canadians, white people or university students, then I would call you to task. I don't think indicating gender is the same as being sexist. This is a very interesting thread though. Girls are usually called Miss, and women are called Ms. Men are called Mr. and boys used to be called Master, but are no longer. I wonder why only that one was dropped?
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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10-14-2005, 04:23 PM | #12 | |
Fair Dinkum
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,319
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10-14-2005, 04:26 PM | #13 |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
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I think there are several reasons for why these terms exist. Aside from the title "Ms" most of these are older than dirt. I doubt that back in the days of Little House on the Prarie and before, that married women would take kindly to being called "Miss". It would also be kind of awkward to refer to a married lady as "Miss" if she was wearing a wedding band. So in a way I think it was meant to be respectful, not degrading.
These terms often and usually signified status, either marital, or financial in cultures. For males we have: "sir, gentleman, lad, master, mister", and going way back to the old days: "lord" For females: "lady, mam, madam, miss, ms, mrs", and probably many more
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
10-14-2005, 05:31 PM | #14 | |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
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Mrs and Miss are both abbreviations of Mistress, while Mr is a version of Master. All were just forms of address which have acquired new specific meanings.
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There's no hope of changing it now though. Far too complicated |
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10-14-2005, 05:52 PM | #15 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
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LOL Sun-star. Good to see you around!
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Don't forget Dr. for a man or woman with a PhD. There are also terms from other cultures like "sri" and "sahib". I can't explain their origin or significance though.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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10-14-2005, 08:21 PM | #16 | |||
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
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We are really talking about pro-nouns.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-14-2005, 09:20 PM | #17 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 516
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In most cases it's likely that women continue to take their husband's name, however, it's undeniable that is changing. The majority of my married female friends retained their surnames.
I've also noticed a decline in the use of all honorifics;with increasing frequency I get letter addressed without any Ms/Mrs/Miss, just my first and last name. I tend to follow the same practice with the exception I mentioned earlier of correspondence with Doctors and Professors. I prefer Ms, frankly, as do all of my married female friends. Ultimately, what's most important is that the name is spelled correctly. :shrug: |
10-14-2005, 09:58 PM | #18 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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What do women do that keep their maiden name after marriage? Do they have everything seperate from their spouse? What is the last name of their children? If that is the case, I would stay single. Very thought provoking topic.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-14-2005, 10:15 PM | #19 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
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I'm a "Ms". I find "miss" to be a bit denigrating... Not overly sure why, but it makes me feel vaguely resentful that for those who choose not to marry, they are differentiated from that of the married. Well, I guess not so much anymore... I guess I just like the lack of differentiation between the status of women who use "Ms". Ugh. I'm sure that I'm not explaining this very well....
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10-14-2005, 10:47 PM | #20 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 516
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I agree with BoP. (so, what else is new )
As for married friends who keep their own surnames, they don't do anything differently. They are domestic partners in the same sense as those where the woman gives up her name. Those friends of mine who have children gave the kids the father's name. As for everything else, there is truly no difference. On a related matter, I have recently found that more and more of my straight friends have adopted the term "partner" for their spouses. Historically, that is a word used by homosexual couples but it seems to be cropping up with increasing frequency in the hetero world as well. Personally, I like it. It implies greater equality in my opinion, and better reflects today's relationships. |
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