why gandalf?

[entss89]

okey , you know how in the first movie , where gandalf was at orthanc and he lost his staff right well then how did he get it back, oh and his ( pointy-hat)? because in rivendell he had both of them. immmmmmmmmmmmmm so confused! later.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Everyone seems to think the recurring staffs was an error but, in "The Art of Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring" in one section... i believe it was under "costume" section to go with the "gandalf" costume I recall it said they designed three different staffs (one for gandalf the grey before orthanc, one after, one for gandalf the White)... so apparently this wasn't an error. I haven't read the books in a year so I don't remember what is up with that in the books.


But I don't think I can answer your question fully, because Ian Mckellen himself doesn't seem to know (If I remember correctly there was a question about the recurring staffs throughout the film and he seemed to no know the answer). However it was not a slip-up as quite a few people seem to think of it.

Also, in TTT doesn't Gandalf's new white staff look like Saruman's? I somehow vaguely remember it resembles it, but in my preview it doesn't show the top part.

[Sween]

yeh that allways kinda bugged me in the movie how did he get it back. In the books a wizards power is directally linked to his staff, this is how gandalf takes saurmans power away (for those who have not read the book) so you would think that not any old staff would do.

[entss89]

im so confused right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sminty_Smeagol]

I have tried to research some, including for looking for referances in LOTR- can't seem to find answers.

I also look in my encyclopedia & the online encyclopedia of Arda. The only referances to his staff I could find of the online encyclopedia are:

He dressed in a long grey cloak, which is perhaps the origin of his title 'The Grey'. He is also described as wearing a tall shady-brimmed pointed blue hat, a silver scarf, and long black boots. He carried at all times a *spiked staff*.

Does anyone recall how he regains (if ever loses) his staff/s in the books?

In TTT, when Legolas Gimli and Aragorn first see him, it says he wore ragged grey clothing over his new white robes, and tottered around on a knotted old staff. In the film he has a sleek shining white staff. But still, I think he would have to get a new staff... he did, afterall, have to get a new body when he died...

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Sminty_Smeagol

Does anyone recall how he regains (if ever loses) his staff/s in the books?

My thoughts: each istari had their own unique staff imbued with their particular signature. Their staffs were not relics of power per se (as in D & D), but merely extenuations of theirselves, and their office. Thus, when Saruman's staff is broken, it is symbolic of him being cast out of the order of the White Council.

In the books, Gandalf's staff was broken asunder, when he cast down the bridge of Kazad-dum. Since the istari seem to be linked with their staffs, it then follows that the breaking of his staff was symbolic of the end of Gandalf the Grey - even though he went on to battle the Balrog. Thus, when he is sent back to Middle Earth after his "death", he comes back with a new staff, which represents his new standing in the White Council.

I have no idea how to apply this to the movie, in which Gandalf's staff is left behind at Orthanc.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

I think I will watch the movie again, refresh my mind, and make up excuses as to what happened

[Mithrea]

AARRGGHH!! I wish my brain was working properly! Someone explained this to me months ago, when I was wondering the same thing, and I can't remember how he explained it, but it made perfect sense. *smacks forehead repeatedly.* I will try to remember to call him when he gets to work in a few hours and ask him. I hope he remembers.

[olsonm]

Originally posted by entss89
okey , you know how in the first movie , where gandalf was at orthanc and he lost his staff right well then how did he get it back, oh and his ( pointy-hat)? because in rivendell he had both of them. immmmmmmmmmmmmm so confused! later.

He didn't. He made a new one. The staffs are different.

[Renille]

How did he make a new one? Was there even enough time? Maybe Elrond had staff-making-supplies or something. Honestly, I have no idea how Gandalf got a new staff.
And THAT'S annoying.

[entss89]

ok now gandalf im sure would not just make a new staff, because thier staff is like one of the most important thing for a wizard. It's like a heart, you just dont go get a new one!

[olsonm]

A wooden staff wouldn't be hard to make, it's just a stick. There is no evidence that the staff itself held any power. Either way, the staffs in the movie are different.

[Entlover]

When my staff broke I went to the woods and found a new one. If I were Gandalf, then I would have stuck a magic thingy on top of it and mumbled a few words and there you are . . his specialty is magic with lights and fire.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by olsonm
There is no evidence that the staff itself held any power.

By all means, the staff appears to be a token of office, and perhaps the means of channelling power, more than anything else. In which case, Gandalf would need to replace it even if he didn't cast it asunder in Kazad-dum, or leave it behind, willy nilly.

[niggle]

I think the staff problem may be an inconsistency of Tolkien's that has carried over to the film. In the book, in Bombadil's House Frodo dreams of Gandalf imprisoned at Orthanc (although of course he doesn't know this is what the dream is). As far as I recall Gandalf lifts up his staff, lightning flashes and an eagle flies down and carries him off. This seems to indicate that Saruman left Gandalf with his staff, and he escaped with it. Why would Saruman have left Gandalf with the staff? It does seem far more likely that Saruman when imprisoning Gandalf would have removed his staff since the staff is evidently a necessary conduit for power. In fact instead of the rather silly magic duel we could have been shown simply a battle of wills over Gandalf's staff with eventually Saruman winning when Gandalf's staff left his hand and flew to Saruman's hand. Lower key perhaps, but much more effective than wizards crashing into walls. Personally I think Tolkien simply overlooked the question of Gandalf's staff and its role in his escape.

We never see Gandalf do anything magical without his staff. Even after he returns from death as Gandalf the White he needs his staff in Edoras to effect the cure of Theoden. Grima counsels Theoden not to allow Gandalf in with his staff (instructions from Saruman perhaps?). It is using power through his staff that Gandalf knocks Grima down and silences him. It is also significant that when casting Saruman out Gandalf breaks his staff. Interestingly the name Gandalf apparently means "the Elf of the wand".

I have no problem with the "new staff" in the Two Towers Movie. Presumably this was made for Gandalf in Lorien (which was where Gandalf was clothed in white on his return from death).

[olsonm]

Originally posted by niggle
We never see Gandalf do anything magical without his staff.

Gandalf killed the Balrog without his staff. He more than likely needed some power to do that.

[Widden]

I agree. The staff was a symbol of office and a center of the power of magicians. He doesnt need it to work the magicks but it creats a focus for the power. Perhaps Saruman could imprision Gandalf without removing his staff and then did not think the staff could help him to escape or maybe he could not take it of Gandalf without hard combat, and it was easier just to imprision rather than fight.

[Renille]

Very good points. I stand corrected. As for Saruman taking away the staff, though...maybe that was to try to take Gandalf's power by taking away the symbol of Gandalf's power. In his own proud way, he probably wanted to gloat over his enemy as much as wizardly possible.

[olsonm]

That's sounds good to me.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Renille
...as much as wizardly possible.

Good choice of words!