11-11-2012, 09:25 AM | #1 | |||
Sapling
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
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Glorfindel reincarnated
Hi, I have a question about Glorfindel.
When Glorfindel was reincarnated it is said that he become almost the equal of the maia. Quote:
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I think Galadriel has very mich power herself and Nenya. I know that´s the old boring power debate, but today I´m somehow interested in that and would like to know what you think about that. And for the fairest part, does that mean that Galadriel is more fair than Arwen or is she not included cause she in half elven? I think she belongs to the elves until she decides to become mortal. |
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11-11-2012, 05:18 PM | #2 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Well, I don't think Glorfindel can really be considered to be one of the remaining or surviving Eldar, since he did neither. He came back to Middle-earth after having departed from it/death.
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11-11-2012, 07:38 PM | #3 |
Sapling
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Thank you,
I see it the same way, but is he mightier? Almost equal to a maiar is hard to best, but he didn´t left that powerful impression on me. |
11-12-2012, 12:05 AM | #4 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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He was just modest, unlike Fëanor
Welcome! I think Tolkien used descriptions like "mightiest" and "fairest" in a poetic way sometimes - IIRC, he uses them of more than one person sometimes.
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11-12-2012, 07:55 AM | #5 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Hard to say if Glorfindel was mightier. Like RÃ*an pointed out, Tolkien called several Elves the fairest, most powerful or strongest Elf throughout his writing.
But it's very likely there were none, or very few Elves, left in the Third Aera that could match Glorfindel, maybe just because the First Aera Elves, having lived under the Trees, appeared to possess more strength physically and spiritually - if that term can be used- than those born in the Years of the Sun, away from Aman. That said, there just aren't many opportunities for the reborn Glorfindel to prove that mighty, almost Maia-like strength within Tolkien's writing. There are at best only vague mentions of any battle Glorfindel could have been in since his return. There is some that can be gleaned from his encounter with the Nazgûl, but there are very few related Elf-Nazgûl encounters to compare with. |
11-12-2012, 02:06 PM | #6 | ||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2008
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That quote appears to be someone's summation. I'm not quibbling with the wording but just to post Tolkien's actual phrasing...
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Last edited by Galin : 11-12-2012 at 02:11 PM. |
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11-12-2012, 09:16 PM | #7 | |
Deus Ex Machina
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It also doesn't help that Tolkien never defines how strong the Maiar actually are... so far as physical power goes, Glorfindel probably has a bit of an advantage over comparable elves remaining in Middle Earth simply because his body is literally younger, less beat up, and unexposed to hardship during its formation.
One can also guess that he might have picked up more overall skill if he spent much time around the Maiar in Valinor, but he's implied to be quite an excellent warrior even before his death, so improvement there may not factor as a result of being re-embodied. The scenes wherein we actually see Glorfindel doing things, emphasize his spiritual prowess and Tolkien reasoned that Quote:
If it helps, I like to think of him in terms of power as either a practice run for Gandalf's change from grey to white, or the living version of Frodo's star-glass. He's just extra shiny. That said, I think Galadriel, Elrond, and probably Cirdan have him outclassed for finesse in using that spiritual power by virtue of experience and loss of innocence.
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11-13-2012, 06:25 PM | #8 |
AngAdan
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Many of the most powerful Amanyar rivaled Maiar in various forms of 'power'. Certainly several show it on the battlefileds during the War of the Great Jewels, matching or defeating Maiar, such the Balrogs, who were specialized for combat. Recall also that the Maiar tend to diminish with time, using up a limited or partially limited store of creative power as they shape and manage Arda; also as JRRT suggested somewhere in a note, they also lose freedom of action over time, as the more of prophecy of the Music of the Ainur is materialized into being and they become more bound by fate.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 11-13-2012 at 06:27 PM. |
01-16-2013, 01:33 AM | #9 | ||
Sapling
Join Date: Nov 2012
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I´m still not convinced that Glorfindel, even if he is called almost the equal of the Maiar and greatly enhanced in his spiritual power is inherently more powerful than Galadriel. Is is said that no one could beat her in a strugle of mind and spirit so I would say that she has the greatest spiritual power.
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12-10-2015, 10:43 AM | #10 |
Elven Warrior
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By the way, when Tolkien was writing the drafts for The Lord of the Rings, he noted to himself that Glorfindel tells of his ancestry in Gondolin...
... now we know Tolkien never had the Elf do that for the tale that was ultimately published, but what's interesting to me is... if this note suggests that, at least at this brief point in time (and perhaps only for the very day he jotted down the reference), Tolkien considered Glorfindel of Rivendell to be the Elf of Gondolin... ... at this time the conception was that Elves were reincarnated by being reborn, physically, to new parents, thus having new bodies. So what "would" have been that ancestry? And Glorfindel of Rivendell is still golden-haired, despite being reborn to new parents... hmm. Of course in a sense it's a moot question or wondering, given that Tolkien changed his mind about this type of reincarnation... ... but anyway |
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