11-25-2002, 02:31 PM | #1 |
Elven Warrior
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The four towers?
This might sound sad but which two towers does the book mean?
There's Orthanc and Barad-Dur and then there's the two towers at the gates of Mordor. Which ones does it mean??????????? Nilore
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UZG-BURGÛLU-OB GHASHANUM GHASHNUM-OB MOR ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Raise the Phial of Galadriel and let the Star Glass of Lothlorian cast out the Darkness of Shelob's Lair. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Naur an edraith ammen! Naur dan i ngaurholth! There was a roar and a crackle, and the tree above him burst into a leaf and bloom of blinding flame. The whole hill was crowned with a dazzling light! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ bhûl latu dûmp Accept Your DOOM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DIE MERE MORTALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh NO I AM A MERE MORTAL AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHH Stop the NUKE Stop the NUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nilore writes last will and testament. Gets on knees And begs God for Mercy. Realizes He's already dead Flies up to heaven ( By the power of Red Bull) and lives happily ever after. THE END ( It's a MINI adventure) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
11-25-2002, 02:37 PM | #2 |
Custous Sanctus
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it means Orthanc and Barad- Dur. the two towers next to Barad-Dur are not really towers.
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11-25-2002, 02:53 PM | #3 |
the Shrike
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Actually, it can refer to any of towers (Morgul, Barad-dur, Orthanc, etc) in the story. The title was enforced upon Tolkien by his publishers when they separated the book into three parts. Even Tolkien couldn't decide which two towers it was referring to: see "Letters" for more details.
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11-25-2002, 03:18 PM | #4 |
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Yes, Orthanc, Minas Morgul, Minas Trith and Cirith Ungol would all work. I think that Minas Tirith would not be it because they do not arrive there until the RotK.
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11-25-2002, 03:57 PM | #5 | |
Custous Sanctus
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Quote:
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I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. - Dune |
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11-25-2002, 08:09 PM | #6 | ||
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Quote:
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11-25-2002, 08:27 PM | #7 |
Elf Lord
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Tolkien himself often changed his mind about it.
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11-25-2002, 08:50 PM | #8 | |||
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11-26-2002, 04:30 PM | #9 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
And cirith Ungul is not really a tower. (so I agree with olsonm and Ms. U) |
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11-26-2002, 04:51 PM | #10 |
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I agree with you Radagast.
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11-26-2002, 09:05 PM | #11 |
Elf Lord
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The first time I read the Trilogy I was confused as to which two towers were being referred to in The Two Towers. Over time I came to believe that they must be Orthanc and Barad-Dur. I had never heard of the interesting fact Beardofpants related above. Now I'm in a conundrum about it all over again!
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11-26-2002, 10:44 PM | #12 |
Elven Warrior
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I was sure it was Orthanc and Cirith Ungol!
Lanelf.
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11-27-2002, 01:56 AM | #13 |
the Shrike
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It can be whichever two towers you want it to be. It's all immaterial anyway, since the book orginally wasn't meant to be divided up like that.
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11-27-2002, 02:11 AM | #14 |
the Shrike
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"The Two Towers gets as near as possible to finding a title to cover the widely divergent Books 3 & 4; and can be left ambiguous - it might refer to Isengard and Barad-dur, or to Minas Tirith and B; or Isengard and Cirith Ungol (1)." [Letter #140]
And in the footnote to the above (1): "In a subsequent letter to Ranyer Unwin (#143), Tolkien is more definite that the Two Towers are 'Orthanc and the Tower of Cirith Ungol'. On the other hand, in his original design for the jacket of The Two Towers (see #151) the Towers are certainly Orthanc and Minas Morgul. Orthanc is shown as a black tower, three-horned (as seen in Pictures no. 27), and with the sign of the White Hand beside it; Minas Morgul is a white tower, with a thin waning moon above it, in reference to its original name, Minas Ithil, the Tower of the Rising Moon (FotR p. 257). Between the two towers a Nazgul flies." "I am not at all happy about the title 'the Two Towers'. It must if there is any real reference in it to Vol II refer to Orthanc and the Tower of Cirith Ungol. But since there is so much made of the basic opposition of the Dark Tower and Minas Tirith, that seems very misleading." [Letter #143]
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11-27-2002, 05:22 AM | #15 |
Hobbit
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Cirith Ungol/Minas Morgul was most definitely a tower. It was built to complement Minas Tirith and they were opposites, the Tower of the Setting Sun and the Tower of the Rising Moon, with Osgiliath, the capital of Gondor, in between straddling the Anduin.
The most sensible reading of the Two Towers is that it refers to the two towers in which or surrounding which the main action in books 3 and 4 takes place: Orthanc and Minas Morgul. |
11-27-2002, 11:17 AM | #16 |
Hobbit
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I always thought that the two towers were Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul. Those were the only two towers I was able to connect together, but I'm perhaps wrong.
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11-27-2002, 12:59 PM | #17 |
Elven Warrior
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I thought it was Minas Tirith and Minas Morgal as well!!
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11-27-2002, 02:24 PM | #18 |
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I thought it was Saraman's tower Orthanc and Sauron's tower Barad Dhor, or is that just me?
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11-27-2002, 02:45 PM | #19 |
Elven Warrior
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Well I've really got something going here. Thanks for your opinions though. Keep 'em comin'.
Nilore
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UZG-BURGÛLU-OB GHASHANUM GHASHNUM-OB MOR ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Raise the Phial of Galadriel and let the Star Glass of Lothlorian cast out the Darkness of Shelob's Lair. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Naur an edraith ammen! Naur dan i ngaurholth! There was a roar and a crackle, and the tree above him burst into a leaf and bloom of blinding flame. The whole hill was crowned with a dazzling light! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ bhûl latu dûmp Accept Your DOOM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DIE MERE MORTALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh NO I AM A MERE MORTAL AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHH Stop the NUKE Stop the NUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nilore writes last will and testament. Gets on knees And begs God for Mercy. Realizes He's already dead Flies up to heaven ( By the power of Red Bull) and lives happily ever after. THE END ( It's a MINI adventure) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
11-30-2002, 08:37 PM | #20 |
Elf Lord
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I think it's Orthanc and Minas Morgul. At least, that's what it says at the very end of my copy of FotR.
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