08-23-2001, 08:50 PM | #1 |
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Elven Kings
Who do you think was the best Noldor king?
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08-23-2001, 10:44 PM | #2 |
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If you'd said "Elven King" only, I'd say THingol.
But since you said "Noldor King" I'd say Fingolfin. It takes a lot of courage, personality and strength to lead the majority of Noldor across Helcaraxe Ice. And no other Elf attempted personal combat with Morgoth!!! |
08-24-2001, 04:44 AM | #3 |
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But Fingolfin wasn’t the wisest of all, is crossing of the Helcaraxe was motivated by pride and revenge, and led to the deaths of many of is people during the crossing, and in ME. Fingolfin’s brother, Finarfin was much wisest, he did kept his wits during the quarrel of the noldor princes in Tuna, and returned home after the Doom of Mandos, keeping at least part of is people safe.
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08-24-2001, 11:09 AM | #4 |
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Without a doubt, I would say Finrod Felagund. He ruled the largest Noldorin realm in Middle-earth, and was the youngest of the great lords of the Noldor. Tolkien even describes him as being the wisest of the Exiled Elves.
I will probably get some heat for this, but I think people give too much credit to Fingolfin. Not that I dislike him, but he had alot of help from other Noldorin lords in leading the great host of the Noldor accross the ice, Finrod being one of them. Also, I have never been especially impressed by Fingolfin's battle with Morgoth. Although it was brave, it was also foolish. There was never any hope of Fingolfin being victorious, and him being a wise Elf, must have known that, but it seems that the challenge was made more out of rage then wisdom. Fingolfin's fall was sad though. As for Thingol, true, he is not a Noldor, but he is a jerk. I blame him for the death of Finrod. |
08-24-2001, 02:16 PM | #5 |
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RE
Yeah why do people like Thingol so much?
I think he's a jerk too |
08-24-2001, 04:11 PM | #6 |
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I've never cared much for Fingolfin... don't really *dislike* him, but he seems to be just another brave Noldor. And some of his actions were really unwise, such as the battle with Morgoth. Finarfin and Finrod were both much more prudent.
What's wrong with Thingol? Okay, so he was mean to Beren, but what was he supposed to say? "Hello, Beren, of course you can marry my only daughter, so that she can become mortal and die! Don't worry about the fact that we'll be parted in the afterlife and I'll probably never see her again, it's no problem at all!" You can't blame him *too* much for overreacting.
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08-24-2001, 04:59 PM | #7 |
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Finrod is my personal favorite, for the reasons above. I also like Fingon, because of his brave rescue of Maedhros that united the two Noldor factions. Fingolfin may have been foolish sometimes, but he was honorable, and was in favor of attacking Morgoth when all that Feanor's sons wanted to do was have banquets and whatever else they did in their spare time.
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08-24-2001, 08:31 PM | #8 |
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Finrod!
Wise and loyal, he was a great elf! I was sorry when he died!
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08-25-2001, 12:32 AM | #9 | |
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Quote:
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08-25-2001, 12:37 AM | #10 | |
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Quote:
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08-25-2001, 09:24 AM | #11 |
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Finrod
I almost cried when he died. Almost.
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08-25-2001, 01:35 PM | #12 |
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RE
Finrod is Thingol's nephew?
I thought Finwe married a Vanyar elf not a Teleri elf. Thingol didn't send Luthien on Beren's quest, he actually locked her up to keep her from going untill she escaped. |
08-25-2001, 02:16 PM | #13 | |
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Re: RE
Quote:
As for Thingol not sending Luthien with Beren, true, but the events that transpired came out of his plan and desire to have Beren die which endagered Luthien instead of excepting her love for Beren. When Thingol layed out this plan, he set a chain of events iin motion that would later lead to the death of Beren and the grief of Luthien which killed her, and also the death of Finrod. I think another good example of Thingol's selfishness and pride, was when Hurin gave him the Nauglamir (Spelling) of Finrod, and he took it with such greed and had the Silmaril placed within it. Of course that was the death of Thingol. So, not only did his greed and pride destroy his daughter's life, her husband's life and Finrod's, it was his own downfall as well. Last edited by Sister Golden Hair : 08-25-2001 at 02:26 PM. |
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08-25-2001, 02:17 PM | #14 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Re: Finrod
Quote:
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08-25-2001, 08:24 PM | #15 |
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RE
Oh, I confused Finarfin with Finwe silly me.
"Finrod's father married Earwen the daughter of Olwe who was Thingol's brother. " So Thingol is Finrod's '2nd Uncle' and Luthien is his 'aunt' |
08-25-2001, 08:33 PM | #16 |
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what the hell is wrong with me
great uncle i mean not a 2nd uncle
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08-25-2001, 09:00 PM | #17 | |
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Re: RE
Quote:
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08-25-2001, 09:33 PM | #18 | |
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Why do people like Thingol? You know, plenty of people like Morgoth. He's a cool character.
Finrod isn't Lúthien's cousin. Not first cousins. Finrod's mother is Lúthien's first cousin. So Finrod is the second cousin of Dior (Lúthien's child). That is, Lúthien was Finrod's Great Uncle's (Thingol's) daughter. Lúthien's first cousins were Eärwen and Galadhon. Quote:
I find it interesting of all the Ñoldoráni no one has picked Finwë, the first. Actually there hasn't been a lot of Noldorin Kings. There were Finwë, Curufinwë, Ñolofinwë, Arafinwë, Fingon, Finrod, Maedros, Turgon and Gil-Galad. That's it, isn't it? It has just occured to me that the only full blooded Ñoldor here are Finwë and his son Fëanáro, how about that? Unless MÃ*riel was of the remote kin of Thingol or something (she alone among the Ñoldor had silver hair).
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08-26-2001, 01:17 PM | #19 |
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Inoldonil, I do not think I am being unfair to Thingol. Yes he eventually came around and had good feelings toward men. He even fostered Turin, but none of this happened until he had caused much pain and grief by trying to kill Beren. There is nothing wrong with protecting your child as he was doing. There is something wrong when you resort to such an extream and do it with the intention of causing anothers death. In this case he caused the death of eleven other people that were not involved. I do not compare events of Thingol, with events of Turin, for this reason: Turin was caught up in a curse laid upon his father by Morgoth. Turin was very prideful, but much of what happened was out of his control. Thingol made a choice. He was not under a curse, nor bound to an oath. He was prideful, selfish, and arrogant.
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08-26-2001, 02:44 PM | #20 |
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And also Ionoldil, the only reason Thingol lost his hatred of men was because ofthe Silmaril he got from him. If Beren had come back without the Silmaril, he would not have liked him anymore than he did before.
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