Lotr And Star Trek

[nazgul prince]

DO u yhink gene rodenberry came up with the idea for vulcans from tolkiens elves.It seems almost for sure.The vulcans help us humans get out into the galaxy,just like tolkiens elves pave the way for humans to take over middle earth.And of course the ears.

[entss89]

im not so sure right now but i will definitly try to find it!

[BeardofPants]

Not being overly familiar with Vulcan culture, but it does seem that they pursued science and logic, as opposed to art, and preservation, which is what the elvish culture seems to be at a gross simplification.

[GandalfTheWhite]

i think BoP is right, vulcans were obsessed with logic and not as free spirited as elves

[Ñólendil]

You won't find any reference to the ears of the Elves in the Lord of the Rings anywhere.

Maybe the pointed ears on Vulcans are due to some influence or other from the tradtion of Elves in general, but I don't think Vulcans are very much like Tolkien's Quendi.

[Ma Uai: Ua Nemti]

You won't find any reference to the ears of the Elves in the Lord of the Rings anywhere.

Funny! I never realized it, but I'm pretty sure you are correct.

[Spock]

[markedel]

The pointy ears reference is linguistic, something to do with Quenya ear being related leaf. I'm no linguist, but there are some websites somewhere...admins anyone?

[nazgul prince]

Come on u guys u cant tell me that when u see mr spock,That he don't remind u of master elrond.Leanard nimoy would have been the perfect elrond. Well 30 years ago.As far as the ear thing u guys can't tell me that elves had ears closer to humans then vulcans.Think about it?Im soory theres just to many things similer between tolkien's elves and rodeberry's elves.

[nazgul prince]

Rodenberry's vulcans.Sorry not elves

[BeardofPants]

As Nolendil already said, Tolkien NEVER mentioned anything about pointy ears. And as far as I can see, Spock doesn't have "the light" man. Also, vulcans are about progression; elves are about preservation. They're polar opposites.

[Ñólendil]

Thank you Beard. Also, one of the chief characteristic of the Vulcans is their endeavour to be completely free of emotion. The Quendi do not share this desire at all and are quite emotional. The Quendi are also not particularly known for their logic, which is what the Vulcans are chiefly known for (not that the Quendi were at large illogical).

The pointy ears reference is linguistic, something to do with Quenya ear being related leaf. I'm no linguist, but there are some websites somewhere...admins anyone?

The quote you are referring to is located in the Etymologies, which indeed states quite clearly that the ears of the Quendi were leaf-shaped. However, the Etymologies go along with the Book of Lost Tales mythology and it is absolutely absurd to believe that the Elves of the Lord of the Rings had pointed ears because of this. There were mechanical dragons in The Book of Lost Tales and I don't see anyone trying to convince each other that Smaug was a machine.

Come on u guys u cant tell me that when u see mr spock,That he don't remind u of master elrond.Leanard nimoy would have been the perfect elrond.

I certainly can tell you that. I am not reminded of any Elf in the slightest when I look at Mr. Spock. I don't think the Vulcans were very much like Tolkien's Elves, in their character or appearance. I don't think Leanard Nimoy would have made a very good Elrond either. Elrond ought to be very fair (and I think all the actor's looks should be digitally enhanced in some way, if their playing Elves, in the least with bright eyes), and should like he could play the part of a warrior too.

.As far as the ear thing u guys can't tell me that elves had ears closer to humans then vulcans.Think about it?Im soory theres just to many things similer between tolkien's elves and rodeberry's elves.

I've thought about it a great deal and I've researched, and I still think my idea is better, naturally. What are these similarities you speak of?

[nazgul prince]

Then im seening things.All the well known artist of tolkiens world includeing lee,howe and nasmith all dipict the elves with LEAF shaped ears.AS well as hobbit ears it just fits better.And u people are thinking of nimoy as spock playing elrond.Hugo weaving was way off in my opinion.

[BeardofPants]

No, you're not seeing things. That is the artist's depiction of elves. Also, remember that the actual mythology of elves existed before Tolkien... and they had poiny ears. Doesn't actually mean that Tolkien's quendi had pointy ears: especially since it isn't mentioned by him. Furthermore, Tolkien often regretted calling them "elves"... I think in letters he mentiones a couple times, that he wished he'd gone with "Eldar" rather than "elves."

[nazgul prince]

Yes true. But ther ELVES wither there a creation from tolkien,or santas little helpers.If there called Quendi or Eldar or Gnomes,fairys,prixie,brownies.There Elves plan and simple.Its liking saying dwarves don't have beards or trolls don't turn to stone in sunlight.Yes tolkiens Quendi are the greatest in all of fantasy today.Or ever for that matter.But were did tolkien get them.From real myth.They have leaf shaped ears people.

[BeardofPants]

I'd love to take you down on that one, but I think I'll leave you to Nolendil.

[Ñólendil]

AS well as hobbit ears it just fits better

Some artists may accidentally be correct in giving Hobbit's ears, but there is actually a basis for it. Tolkien said in response to American artists for The Hobbit that he imagined them (Hobbits) with slightly pointed ears. He himself depicted Bilbo was slightly pointed ears, though it is altogether possible that his conception later changed when he decided that they were descended from us. Or maybe not. If a race of people descended from us can have hairy feet, they can have slightly pointed ears too.

There is however something to say for Elves not having pointed ears. They are never distinguished from other people by their ears. It was the beauty of the Elves, their fair faces and forms, their bright eyes and their melodious voices that always gave them away. It was by the light about them and their beauty and their songs that betrayed the kinship of Gildor's folk to Sam, Pippin and Merry, who had never seen Elves. When Glorfindel is first seen to be an Elf, his chief attribute is his looks. The Lord of the Rings is 2100 pages long and Elves are recognized for various reasons, never for their ears.

In Of Tuor And His Coming to Gondolin (which was written after the Lord of the Rings was finished), published in Unfinished Tales, the Elemmakil the Elf of Gondolin at first mistakes Tuor the Man (who's head and face are uncovered) for one of his own kindred, but then he notices Tuor's eyes, which were not as bright as the Eldar's. He doesn't notice his ears, he notices his eyes.

But ther ELVES wither there a creation from tolkien,or santas little helpers.

So all Elves have to have pointy ears, is that it? An author doesn't have free-will to change them up? Some elves in folklore and Norse mythology are small nature spirits with wings. Should Tolkien's Elves have wings now? Should they make toys?

Its liking saying dwarves don't have beards or trolls don't turn to stone in sunlight.Yes tolkiens Quendi are the greatest in all of fantasy today.Or ever for that matter.But were did tolkien get them.From real myth.They have leaf shaped ears people.

J. K. Rowling's trolls are derived ultimatey from myth and folklore, as Tolkien's Elves are, and they do not turn into stone in sunlight. Perhaps you should write her a letter, informing her of her obvious mistake. Or you might accept than an author has the right to any sort of troll, dwarf or elf he or she wishes. Tolkien's Elves are very different from all other Elves before him, even from those of Celtic Mythology. He changed a lot of things, they were his Elves, why is it so hard to believe that he changed their ears (which are hardly important or useful or significant anyway)?

[Ñólendil]

This is the entry for Elves from the Encyclopedia Mythica:

In mainly Teutonic and Norse folklore, the elves were originally the spirits of the dead who brought fertility. Later they became supernatural beings, shaped as humans, who are either very beautiful (elves of light) or extremely ugly (dark / black elves). They were worshipped in trees, mountains and waterfalls. The Danish elves are beautiful creatures, but they have hollow backs. The Celtic elves are the size of humans. The belief in elves, or supernatural and invisible beings, is almost universal. Apparently, there has been no primitive tribe or race that has not believed at one time or another that the world was inhabited by invisible beings. Especially on the British Isles the belief was very profound. In stories from the 8th and 9th century there are many references to elves, or fairies as they are called there. The king of the elves, Oberon, and his wife Titania appear in some very important works of medieval literature, such as Huon de Bordeaux and Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream.

Oh, but I guess Tolkien just must of borrowed the ears.

[cassiopeia]

Sometimes it's just embarrasing isn't it? Elves and Vulcans are about as different as you can get. Spock doesn't remind me of Elrond one bit. Actually Deana Troy reminds me of an elf more. We don't really know what he looked like anyway. If elves had pointed ears, wouldn't Tolkien said so somewhere? People seem to have trouble separating Tolkien's writings and other peoples interpretation of his work.

[nazgul prince]

But when u first read about elves what comes to your mind.If tolkien wanted his elves to be different he should have said so.He should have said that they DON'T have pointed ears.I still say they have pointed ears.It's in elvish thing.