08-18-2006, 10:58 PM | #1 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: May 2000
Location: D/FW Texas, USA
Posts: 345
|
Could Vader use Force lightning?
We never see him use it at all. Any thoughts on why?
I'm thinking Vader technically *can* but it might short the suit's circuits. That seems to be what happened to cause his suit to stop working. Yes, he lost a mechanical hand to Luke shortly before that, but Vader didn't start wheezing for real till he threw Palp down the shaft and got a big dose of lightning. Seemed to be breathing alright (well, at least alright for him) up till then. Thoughts?
__________________
Farewell wherever you fare, till your Eyries recieve you at the journey's end. |
08-19-2006, 09:50 AM | #2 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
|
I got the impression that after the defeat of the jedi, the emporer withheld knowledge from Vader; he never did teach him how to keep people alive -which I he didn't know anyway, which to me is just an illustration of all his intentions towards his new apprentice.
Remember how he said that powerful sith lord died, he died because he taught his apprentice everything he knew and was betrayed, killed in his sleep by his apprentice. I donot doubt this made an impression on Lord sidious. Besides, I have never seen Obi Wan use force lightning.
__________________
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
08-19-2006, 10:08 AM | #3 | |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: College!
Posts: 1,976
|
Quote:
And of course we all know who the apprentice of that "powerful Sith Lord" was...Mr. Palpatine himself. And traitors are ever mistrustful.
__________________
Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
|
08-19-2006, 10:25 AM | #4 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
|
Quote:
__________________
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
|
08-19-2006, 07:50 PM | #5 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: May 2000
Location: D/FW Texas, USA
Posts: 345
|
I agree, Plagueis' apprentice was most likely Palpatine. And given the "only 2 sith" rule, I would expect treachery if I was the Sith Master......after all, if there can only be a master and an apprentice, then the apprentice basically has to do away with his master somehow.
Therefore Palpatine has a motivation to leave Vader ignorant on many matters. Good point there.
__________________
Farewell wherever you fare, till your Eyries recieve you at the journey's end. |
08-21-2006, 12:20 PM | #6 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
Quote:
Another good question is, Yoda obviously knew about force lighning, because he deflected Dooku's. So the questions comes to my mind, did Yoda know how to use force lightning himself if he'd wanted to?
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
|
08-21-2006, 01:31 PM | #7 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
|
Quote:
Also, I have to say, I always saw a corollation between "the maring" of Feanor ("most evil deed of morgoth") and the maring of Anikin by Palpitine.
__________________
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
|
08-21-2006, 02:16 PM | #8 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: May 2000
Location: D/FW Texas, USA
Posts: 345
|
There are quite a few similarities between Tolkien's works and the SW galaxy. After all, George Lucas has said he borrowed from a lot of places for his ideas, and LOTR was one of them....
__________________
Farewell wherever you fare, till your Eyries recieve you at the journey's end. |
08-21-2006, 08:25 PM | #9 | |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: College!
Posts: 1,976
|
Quote:
__________________
Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
|
08-22-2006, 02:22 PM | #10 | ||
Salt Miner
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: gone to Far Harad
Posts: 987
|
The Star Wars website FAQ section (look under “Episode III Lore”, “Can Vader use the Force with his metal arm?”) says that while many Force abilities were based upon concentration and focus, Sith used their physical bodies to use Force lightening. Vader had lost both his hands: his right hand to Dooku, his left to Obi Wan.
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
08-22-2006, 09:10 PM | #11 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
Hmm...Tel, I had not noticed Yoda's own FL in fight with Emporer, but I coul be wrong...I had thought, as in the fight with Dooku, that he as simply "returning" it.
Curu, you have a point about Yoda not dabbling in it...and Alcuin has posted some interesting clues... But surely Yoda, KNEW HOW?
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
08-25-2006, 03:31 PM | #12 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: May 2000
Location: D/FW Texas, USA
Posts: 345
|
A good way to defend against something, is to know all about that something. Now Yoda may not practiced this maxim by knowing all about the Sith or the Dark Side, but since he has an almost perfect defense against Force lightning, he must have known something about how to do it. That, and seen it before, many times, so got some practice.
But at 900+ years old....you have to have seen a few things.
__________________
Farewell wherever you fare, till your Eyries recieve you at the journey's end. |
08-26-2006, 01:14 AM | #13 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
So yeah, I agree with you.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
|
08-26-2006, 02:40 PM | #14 | |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: College!
Posts: 1,976
|
Quote:
I just don't know about the idea that Yoda could use FL...it just clashes with his character.
__________________
Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
|
08-27-2006, 05:51 PM | #15 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: May 2000
Location: D/FW Texas, USA
Posts: 345
|
Heh, well, Osama Bin Laden is a terrorist, but he's also human.The rest of us can use his methods to acheive our aims, but we don't, because it isn't in the character of most humans to do so. Capable, we are, yes, but we don't go there because we know it's a bad idea.
Yoda may not be the same species as Dooku or Palp, who we both see using Force lightning, but they are all Force users. In the same way, Yoda may be capable of using, or at least understanding how to use, lightning, but he doesn't do it because it is an offensive attack, and I suspect, draining to the target's life force. Not that Yoda thinks killing is wrong, say in self defense, as with the clones who tried to order 66 him, but to kill in the way a Darksider would, nah. Leif, it makes sense that removing or damaging an arm would not knock out the suit electronics to the point it would cease to breathe for Vader. The suit's primary function is to act as an iron lung, after all, and I'd think the priorities in the system would be set up to guard that function to the last. Vader could all too easily lose an arm or leg in a fight, the breathing function would logically be kept separate. Besides, I think it was meant to look like his active choice to kill Palpatine was what actually killed Vader.
__________________
Farewell wherever you fare, till your Eyries recieve you at the journey's end. |
08-30-2006, 06:09 PM | #16 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
So obviously Yoda knows SOMETHING about force lightning, which brings us to the question of who was his teacher, and what HE knew...
(Let's get down to the nitty gritty: Yoda is a former Sith)
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
08-31-2006, 12:43 AM | #17 |
Captain Jack
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: High Charity
Posts: 598
|
hmm from what i saw yoda asorbed palps force lighting then shot it back at him also why did we never see darth maul using force lighting maybe he just did not know it but you would expect him to beable to.
yoda i think could use force lighting but how would he learn it since it is not taught in the jedi academy then yodas master would have to be a sith. In conclusion Why would a sith teach him even if he wasnt a jedi by then. a sith would probely still not teach it to such an alien.
__________________
Captain Jack Sparrow: When you marooned me on that god forsaken spit of land, you forgot one very important thing, mate: I’m Captain Jack Sparrow. Cortana: So have you got a plan to get out? Master Chief: I was gonna shoot my way out. Mix things up a little. |
08-31-2006, 11:05 AM | #18 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
|
Maybe he turned from the darkside
First let me say that I don't believe that force lightning was solely a characteristic of the darkside. I think once you get to a certain level of understanding of the force, you are able to use it.
We all hear about jedi turning to the darkside, what about the other wau around... Could Yoda have originally been discovered by a sith, who one day just happened upon a piculiar creature on an alien swamp world that just happens to be the most powerful being he had ever encountered with the force...would he train him as his apprentice, I think so. The question is, could Yoda's will be strong enough that even after training - probably learning about the jedi was the catalyst - that corrupted his heart and twisted his reasoning, he could still be so intuned with the true nature of the force and the universe, that he found away to turn from the darkside and chose, with free will to be a jedi. Could Yoda have been such a one? I say yes. Yoda was always at peace, he accepted reality, even when the jedi was destroyed he was calm and accepted his duty. I think this would explain his greater understanding of the force. He new and was sensitive to the darkside and was able to see clearly the emmotions and bad habits that lead to it; he would never go back. Best way to teach a child to fear fire is to allow them to get burned.
__________________
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
08-31-2006, 03:37 PM | #19 |
Captain Jack
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: High Charity
Posts: 598
|
He didn't really seem to be the type to even let himself be trained in the dark side.
he probely understood the ways of the sith even could use them maybe be his teacher was certinly not a sith when luke walked into jabbas palace and those two gamorian guards were guarding the door it was quite odvious that he used force choke which is a dark side power meaning that he learnt it without a sith training him. so i suspect that yoda could've done it twice as easily learning the dark side with out a trainer that is.
__________________
Captain Jack Sparrow: When you marooned me on that god forsaken spit of land, you forgot one very important thing, mate: I’m Captain Jack Sparrow. Cortana: So have you got a plan to get out? Master Chief: I was gonna shoot my way out. Mix things up a little. |
08-31-2006, 05:40 PM | #20 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
Aha! Orithil, you have raised an interesting question: where did Luke learn the Force Choke?
Tel, I raise the question, is Yoda really from Dagobah?
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Light Saber VS The Force | Monster_Of_The_Force | The Star Wars Saga | 19 | 01-13-2014 01:56 PM |
Demaethor and Amariel | Rosie Gamgee | Writer's Workshop | 14 | 11-13-2007 09:05 PM |
The Force and genetics | Anglorfin | The Star Wars Saga | 37 | 06-29-2004 12:40 PM |
Independance Day:- A Black Day for Brits? | Radagast | General Messages | 92 | 07-22-2003 02:22 PM |