01-14-2004, 02:33 PM | #1 | ||
Elf Lord
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Hobbit Questions
I was rereading the Hobbit last night and I read a couple of lines that have confused me.
Question # 1: Quote:
Question # 2: Quote:
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01-14-2004, 02:46 PM | #2 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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I don't think Tolkien had thought out The Third Age at all when he wrote 'The Hobbit' - or even had any idea that there'd BE a 'Third Age'. He just made use of some of the things he had already created (Gondolin, Elrond, etc.) It could probably be explained away though. There'd be thousands of years to have opportunity for rescuing of princesses... and maybe there was enough strife going on along Gondor's borders - or maybe in distant lands beyond the areas we see on the maps in LOTR...??
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01-14-2004, 05:29 PM | #3 |
High King of Númenórë
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Actually I think he did have thoughts of other things going on, because remember wasn't his "first" story actually "The Fall of Gondolin", which was all basically about Tuor. Granted this wasn't published before the Hobbit, but he was telling it to people in 1916-17 and stuff...
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
01-14-2004, 06:54 PM | #4 |
Elf Lord
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I forgot about the fall of Gondolin, I am so dumb sometimes
About the fighting around Gondor, would they really be princesses or would it be really rich, pretty females?
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01-14-2004, 11:09 PM | #5 | |
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Quote:
I think JRRT has his general histories in mind when he refers to this stuff, but I don't think he is talking about any particular princesses or battles.
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01-16-2004, 11:04 AM | #6 | |
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Idril and Aredhel could be applied here (and Luthien if you try hard enough, heh...) though it's obvious that Tolkien wasn't pointing out anything specifically. The Lord of the Rings hadn't even been considered, but the world of The Hobbit was already being linked to the world of The Silmarillion. Gondolin seems the best fit, as previously stated - especially since Tolkien referred to Gondolin a number of times because of Glamdring and Orcrist.
Elrond - Quote:
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01-16-2004, 11:34 AM | #7 | |
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Quote:
While there could have been any number of 'princess rescues' in the course of history before that time - whether princesses of Gondolin, Gondor, Rohan, Arnor, Arthedain, Cardolan, Rhudaur, etc. Just trying to 'cover' for JRRT! |
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01-16-2004, 03:19 PM | #8 |
Enting
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The White Council was moving against Sauron's reappearance in Dol Guldur around this time - could've been what he was referring to (in retrospect).
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01-16-2004, 04:24 PM | #9 | |
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Quote:
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01-16-2004, 04:39 PM | #10 | |
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Quote:
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01-16-2004, 05:08 PM | #11 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Re: Hobbit Questions
Quote:
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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01-16-2004, 05:10 PM | #12 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Hero's existed outside of the known world of the Hobbits and although some of them became Hero's they knew of none in their time. Gandalf did but as he said they were all engaged in other battles at the time and so he had to turn to the Hobbits.
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01-17-2004, 07:05 PM | #13 | |
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Quote:
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01-17-2004, 10:53 PM | #14 |
Elf Lord
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Ya, I guess you guys are right, but the dwarves would know more about that stuff too (about the heros . . .) 'cause they would be doing a lot of traveling.
They wouldn't really be refered to as princesses would they, as far as I know Luthien was the only real princess, but Gandalf would probably dumb it down for the Hobbits.
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01-18-2004, 01:34 AM | #15 |
Enting
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Aredhel was the daughter of King Fingolfin; Idril was the daughter of King Turgon...that's why I listed them. Princesses.
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01-18-2004, 04:57 PM | #16 |
Elf Lord
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whoops I forgot that. I really need to reread the Sil. I feel so stupid! ! !
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