10-20-2007, 02:57 PM | #1 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Trying to keep a hold on my temper so I don't turn into a big green guy.
Posts: 572
|
Dumbledore is gay!
http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/ap/2...288766000.html
i though he might be
__________________
"We are going to tickle some Aes Sedai under the chin, rescue a mule, and put a snip-nosed girl on the Lion Throne. Oh, yes. That's Aviendha. Don't look at her cross-wise or she'll try to cut your throat and probably slit her own by mistake."-Mat Cauthon from Wheel of Time "Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry...."-Dr. Bruce Banner HULK BATMAN THE FLASH |
10-20-2007, 11:38 PM | #2 |
Fowl Administrator
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 53,420
|
This may sound very self-aggrandizing, but there's a tremendous amount of idiocy going on all over the Internet today, and I've just spent the last two hours writing a piece to deal with it.
Briefly: I think it enriches the series. But if you don't agree, it's entirely your prerogative to read Harry Potter as if Rowling had never said a thing about sexual orientation. And I'm going to stand by that when it comes to any remark any author makes about his or her own books.
__________________
All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien |
10-21-2007, 05:11 AM | #3 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ
Posts: 6,433
|
I think it's all a bit... frivolous and silly.
I mean... come on, what's the big deal? His sexuality has absolutely zero effect on the book at all. Of course on the other hand that does make Dumbledor the coolest gay character EVER, but he's pretty kickass no matter what orientation he is . |
10-21-2007, 04:50 PM | #4 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Trying to keep a hold on my temper so I don't turn into a big green guy.
Posts: 572
|
it just surprised me even though i kinda suspected it. It doesn't make me like him less especialy since i never liked him much anyway
__________________
"We are going to tickle some Aes Sedai under the chin, rescue a mule, and put a snip-nosed girl on the Lion Throne. Oh, yes. That's Aviendha. Don't look at her cross-wise or she'll try to cut your throat and probably slit her own by mistake."-Mat Cauthon from Wheel of Time "Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry...."-Dr. Bruce Banner HULK BATMAN THE FLASH |
10-23-2007, 01:36 PM | #5 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
It may or may not be a fraud on her part. Well fraud is pretty strong, afterall it is her series. My point is that she may not have written the books with Dumbledore being gay, but she now feels obliged -or whatever- to have a major character be gay.
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
10-23-2007, 02:53 PM | #6 | |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: trondheim, norway
Posts: 1,388
|
Quote:
__________________
Don't Panic! |
|
10-23-2007, 03:24 PM | #7 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
Well, JK Rowling said she thought of him as gay and deleted a line in a proposed movie script on that basis. What is remarkable is that there is nothing in canon to support such an attribution unless you consider that a celibate lifestyle in the face of a same-sex attraction (never mentioned or described or hinted) is JKR's idea of normative homosexual behaviours. And it is a viable lifestyle choice just as for heterosexuals.
Frankly, I'm glad we won't have any backstory torrid romances of either orientation! Imagine: Dapper Dumbly and Miss McGonagall Do Dallas! Albus and the Boys from Brazil on Break! Dumbledore and Grindewald Gone Wild! Hogwarts Blanket Bingo! Personally, it may well be that JKR came to that understanding as the storyline progressed over the seventeen years it's been aborning. Authors often speak of their characters having a 'free will' that precludes specific desired actions by the authors and which require the adaptation of the author to the character. Particularly, Dorothy L. Sayers notes this of her characters in the LORD PETER WIMSEY series. And we know that JKR likes DLS. But for JKR to state such an understanding of her character's "self" does not imply that she gives a seal of approval to all that goes by that designation in anyone else's definition of what constitutes that "self". If it had been pertinent to the story line - and it is the delimitation of the modern obsession with sexual antics that her story line is most notable for by example (snogging as publically ridiculous) and by omission (none of the main characters are gratingly graphically so engaged) - she would have to have included it. It seems an afterthought. Lest anyone say I am being too kind because of my great love for the HP series, I must add that to have revealed Albus Dumbledore in all of his mistakes and errors and Machiavellianness in DEATHLY HALLOWS and then make this revelation is not, to my mind, a resounding approval. Yet the positives of heterosexuality are amply displayed in multiple familial settings (even, yech!, the Malfoys! ... just how did little Draco get to be? ... don't go there!). And this certainly didn't fit the speculations that specific characters might be gay : Lupin, Lockhart, etc. Probably will spin off a rather tawdry round of fanfic, though!
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 10-23-2007 at 03:26 PM. |
10-23-2007, 03:41 PM | #8 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
Quote:
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
|
10-23-2007, 03:58 PM | #9 | |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
|
Quote:
__________________
And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
|
10-23-2007, 04:08 PM | #10 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
sun-star, yes, but merely in time! Now with authorial apparent sanction. Oh, my! Hearts are probably all a-flutter all over the fanficdom!
HB, you are wickedly evil, young person! Wickedly evil! If they do this to the dry stick of Tolkien, what shall they do to the green stick of Rowling!!! By the way, nobody gave up any other titles for possible fantasy novels we really don't want to think about! Seasonally: Dumbledore and the Friday 13 Dumbleween Van Helsing and Dumbledore For the interessted in various reactions, there is the ever popular in my mind: http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=198
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 10-23-2007 at 04:10 PM. |
10-23-2007, 04:23 PM | #11 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
The problem, as always, is not whether or not Dumbledore is gay. The problem is that his character is so thinly drawn that he might or might not be.
In a universe completely devoid of logical consistancy, she can make up anything she wants. I notice she didn't make up this while the big money was still to be made.
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
10-23-2007, 04:24 PM | #12 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
Oh, and Dumbledore will be leaving Hogwarts. GLAAD is making him president of their organization.
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
10-23-2007, 04:26 PM | #13 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
Quote:
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
|
10-23-2007, 04:28 PM | #14 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
Quote:
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
|
10-23-2007, 04:37 PM | #15 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
Quote:
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
|
10-23-2007, 07:16 PM | #16 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
SACAA,
You will find this essay of interest. It is about the fact that as entertaining as authorial comments may be, the canon is what matters. http://www.scriptoriumdaily.com/2007...an-the-author/ But your mileage may differ. Hector B, you should read it as well. Just for fun. And possibly as an altogether due penance for your anatomically correct doll bit! Ugh! By the way, the author of the essay addresses Tolkien and the whole familial industry with HOME et alia. Pretty good viewpoint.
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-23-2007, 09:01 PM | #17 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
Inked, that was a good read. Very true, his thoughts on the technicalites of whether or not Dumbledore is gay in the books etc...
Btw, I have heard of John Mark Reynolds. He is frequently a guest on the Hugh Hewitt Show.
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
10-24-2007, 10:55 AM | #18 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
For something that is "irrelavant", John Mark Reynolds seems to be taking it a bit too seriously. I think it makes sense. In today's culture, it's more than common for someone in a leadership position to hide their homosexuality. I'd say that writing in parts "proving" Dumbledore's sexuality would have been unrealistic. If nothing else, it helps reinforce the idea that people should be judged by their personality and actions, instead of by their sexual preference.
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
10-24-2007, 11:10 AM | #19 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
It's a blog, what do you think?
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
10-24-2007, 06:49 PM | #20 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
BJ, it's not irrelevant when the press makes such a huge deal out of it, is it? That's why the response was written by a person who is well qualified to assess literature and who thinks HP is such.
"Prof. John Mark Reynolds has written an article for Scriptorium Daily called “Taking Stories More Seriously Than The Author.” The article is an important contribution to the discussion of Ms. Rowling’s comment at Carnegie Hall; it challenges us to consider how we read a book and how we understand its meaning. No doubt, it’s startling, sure-to-be-misunderstood, sound bite assertion that “Dumbledore is not gay” will be what most remember. Prof. Reynolds, the head of the Great Books program at Biola/Torrey, however, is saying much more. He knows how to read a book at depth and spends his days in colloquia with some of the brightest young people in the country discussing how to read and engage texts while reading the best books of the Western Canon. He writes today, quite simply, that there are limits on the control an author has on a text and its meaning — and that limit is reached when the book is published." http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/ 10-23-2007 The argument is not to let the sound bytes "Dumbledore is gay" or "Dumbledore is not gay" override the significance of the Harry Potter series. And I do think that is relevant since the canon does not support the issue. E.G., Dante's treatment of his mentor, Brunetto Latini, in the fiery desert of Hell as punishment for his sodomy (Canto 15) is arguably an argument FOR homosexuality as a rational human choice. But as such in the INFERNO, Dante is showing that human reason as distorted by the Fall is not the ultimate judge of such a state of actions. In fact, the issue for Dante may really be that despite the deep love and affection he has for his mentor, despite Dante's human reason agreeing with the actions of this mentor within the bounds of that human reason, reason is NOT the ultimate arbiter of the matter. Revelation and the divine morality are the ultimate arbiters of that matter for Dante. See http://danteworlds.laits.utexas.edu/circle7.html canto 15. Now, do you think it a fair estimation of Dante's DIVINE COMEDY to assert "Dante says gay is OK"? Would you think that the only important material in the whole of the DIVINE COMEDY. I doubt it. This is the issue of relevance or irrelevance for HARRY POTTER. This is the material actually under discussion in the article.
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Favorite Dumbledore Lines | durinsbane2244 | Harry Potter | 11 | 08-11-2005 05:52 PM |
(spoilers) Dumbledore | EyeSeeYou | Harry Potter | 25 | 10-05-2003 06:51 PM |
Richard Harris aka Dumbledore has died | jerseydevil | Harry Potter | 29 | 03-16-2003 01:03 AM |
Who *is* playing Dumbledore?! | BeardofPants | Entertainment Forum | 4 | 01-05-2003 01:59 AM |
Fact/Rumor Roundup headlines through September 7 | Michael Martinez | Lord of the Rings Movies | 6 | 09-09-2000 05:13 AM |