01-21-2005, 07:26 PM | #1 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eryn Ithilien
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seven times the years...
Quote:
Any thoughts are most welcome.
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“To the Sea, to the Sea! The white gulls are crying, The wind is blowing, and the white foam is flying. West, west away, the round sun is falling. Grey ship, grey ship, do you hear them calling, The voices of my people that have gone before me? I will leave, I will leave the woods that bore me; For our days are ending and our years failing. I will pass the wide waters lonely sailing. Long are the waves on the Last Shore falling, Sweet are the voices in the lost Isle calling, In Eresëa, in Elvenhome that no man can discover, Where the leaves fall not: land of my people forever!” |
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01-21-2005, 09:41 PM | #2 |
Honourary Elitist Inklette
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I always assumed that was some sort of entish ideosyncracy. arg...cannot spell.
However, it is similar wording to the phrase seventy times seven, which is used in the bible to refer to a very large amount of things, or time. And, so, perhaps, Tolkien drew inspiration from that phrasing... |
01-21-2005, 11:39 PM | #3 |
The Insufferable
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Saruman had already began cutting down trees before gandalf was captured - he had simply left the trees within Isengard itself standing in order to maintain the illusion of normalcy until he was ready to spring his plans.
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
01-22-2005, 03:31 AM | #4 |
"The Bomb"
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Maybe, since random numbers were placed in ancient dialogue in key parts of the Bible that could not possibly have been quoted accurately, Tolkien decided to do something similar to emphasize the legendary proportions of the Ents' glory (or he intended it to sound like Frodo making this distinction while recording his journey). I doubt it, but that would be cool.
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? |
01-22-2005, 01:24 PM | #5 |
Tolkien-aholic
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probably just implying a very long time, annd to ents, a long time is a very looooooooooooooooooong time indeed
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What was lost is now found. |
01-23-2005, 02:40 PM | #6 |
Elven Warrior
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Location: Canada
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well in the book of revelations in the bible 4 signifies the world, 6 imperfection, 7 totality or perfection, 12 israels tribes or the apostles, and 1000 is immensity.
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Earendel arose where the shadow flows At Ocean's silent brim; Through the mouth of night as a ray of light Where the shores are sheer and dim He launched his bark like a silver spark From the last and lonely sand; Then on sunlit breath of day's fiery death He sailed from Westerland |
01-23-2005, 03:17 PM | #7 |
Honourary Elitist Inklette
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Yeah, I really love the symbolism of numbers in the bible...and I think Tolkien wanted to apply some of that symbolism and coolness to the Ents...
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01-24-2005, 05:49 PM | #8 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
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If Treebeard meant that literally, about 7 (EDIT: because he had tormented them about 1 year) years is a very short time for an Ent. If he meant it symbolically, why 7?
Ironically, Saruman talked his way out not too long after that.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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01-24-2005, 05:53 PM | #9 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
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Reference the book of genisis, regarding the punishment of Cain...
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. Seven is the number of secrets and magic...
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
01-24-2005, 08:14 PM | #10 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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What was that Gilbert and Sullivan song with "fifty-fold"? Now it's bugging me!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-24-2005, 08:25 PM | #11 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Oh yeah, I think it's something like "We'll seek a penalty - fifty fold! For General Stanley's stooorrrrr-y!" from Pirates of Penzance.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-25-2005, 12:35 AM | #12 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
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01-25-2005, 09:06 AM | #13 | |
The Intermittent One
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Quote:
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01-25-2005, 11:35 AM | #14 |
Elven Warrior
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Or it could be that we are reading too much into it
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Durin the Sleepless! |
01-25-2005, 03:00 PM | #15 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eryn Ithilien
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I had thought of the Bible references myself but I was not sure if Tolkien was thinking along those lines when he wrote it, but perhaps he was, who knows. Thanks for the input everyone.
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“To the Sea, to the Sea! The white gulls are crying, The wind is blowing, and the white foam is flying. West, west away, the round sun is falling. Grey ship, grey ship, do you hear them calling, The voices of my people that have gone before me? I will leave, I will leave the woods that bore me; For our days are ending and our years failing. I will pass the wide waters lonely sailing. Long are the waves on the Last Shore falling, Sweet are the voices in the lost Isle calling, In Eresëa, in Elvenhome that no man can discover, Where the leaves fall not: land of my people forever!” |
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