12-14-2002, 09:57 AM | #1 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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The Lay of Leithian - Release from bondage
The typescript of this poem bears the title:
The GEST of BEREN son of BARAHIR and LUTHIEN the FAY called TINUVIEL the NIGHTINGALE or the LAY OF LEITHIAN Release from Bondage And the question is, what do you imagine the last line "Release from Bondage" is referring to? JRRT never gave an explicit answer to this question, but the poem itself suggests different answers. What do you think?
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12-14-2002, 10:16 AM | #2 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Any chance of posting the poem for us lazy folk? I have a Silmarillion, what chapter is it in? Or where is it?
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12-14-2002, 10:54 AM | #3 |
AngAdan
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The lay is refered to in LoTR and Sil, Part of the Sil Cahpter on Beren is drawn from it. It is in HoME vol3 in a few (unfinished) versions. I consider it the very SOUL of the ME creation. And no in cannot be posted here, it is many pages.
I consider the Bondage to be the Obligagtion of the quest for the Silmaril and the delivery of it as the Bride's piece, which would be ironic as the conclusion (and thus the release) of the Lay had not been written. |
12-14-2002, 11:12 AM | #4 |
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I see. The bondage then could be the pledge Beren made to Luthien's father to get the Silmaril? That was a very cruel stipulation wasn't it!
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12-14-2002, 03:24 PM | #5 |
the Shrike
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Yeah, but it can mean other things as well. Luthien's release from her father's tree prison, the release of those from Sauron's fallen tower, or Beren's release from emotional apathy - when he meets Luthien, Beren's first escape from the kitchens (or am I thinking of BoLT here?), the release of the silmaril from Morgoth's crown, etc. There are many themes of bondage within the lay, to choose from. But overall, it's probably the release of Beren from his obligation to attain a silmaril. Poor Beren.
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12-14-2002, 04:06 PM | #6 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
And yes, the escape from the kitchen is from BoLT.
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12-15-2002, 03:07 AM | #7 |
Enting
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The Bondage is Luthiens'. She was as an 'immortal' bound to the World. Thus she would be seperated from Beren at his death. When she was graced with the privilege of being allowed to choose the doom of Men she was released from the bondage of 'immortal' life.
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12-15-2002, 03:22 AM | #8 | |
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Interesting topic - I wish I had BoLT 3. How about also Beren's release from death to go back and be with Lúthien for a bit? I think probably though that it's Lúthien's release from the bounds of the world to be with Beren, a mortal who will leave the world when he dies. I love Beren's response to Thingol when he hears Thingol's condition for marrying Lúthien.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 12-15-2002 at 03:23 AM. |
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12-15-2002, 05:11 AM | #9 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
"A night there was when winter died; then all alone she sang and cried and danced until the dawn of spring, and chanted some wild magic thing that stirred him, till it sudden broke the bonds that held him, and he woke to madness sweet and brave despair. He flung his arms to the night air, and out he danced, unheeding, fleet, enchanted, with enchanted feet. He sped towards the hillock green, the lissom limbs, the dancing sheen; he leapt upon the grassy hill his arms with loveliness to fill: his arms were empty, and she fled; away, away her white feet sped. But as she went he swiftly came and called her with her tender name of nightingales in elvish tongue, that all the woods now sudden rung: 'Tinuviel! Tinuviel!' And clear his voice was as a bell; its echoes wove a binding spell: 'Tinuviel! Tinuviel!' His voice such love and longing filled one moment stood she, fear was stilled; one moment only; like a flame he leaped towards her as she stayed and caught and kissed that elfin maid. As love there woke in sweet surprise the starlight trembled in her eyes. A! Luthien! A! Luthien! more fair than any child of Men; O! loveliest maid of Elfinesse, what madness does thee now possess! A! lissom limbs and shadowy hair and chaplets of white snowdrops there; O! starry diadem and white pale hands beneath the pale moonlight! She left his arms and slipped away just as the breaking of the day." (And I suppose you mean HoME 3 )
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12-15-2002, 05:33 AM | #10 |
Elf Lord
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I have been thinking along the same lines as Tar-Elenion. I think the bondage was the bondage of the World, in which suffering abounds.
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12-15-2002, 05:50 AM | #11 |
Elf Lord
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I agree with Nolendil. Tar-Elenion has best described the bondage referred to.
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12-15-2002, 10:50 AM | #12 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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I say it is when Luthien gets out from under that idiot dad's thumb and blows that tree house.
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12-15-2002, 11:19 AM | #13 |
Elven Warrior
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I would highly recommend this to anyone who likes the verses of Tolkien. The Lay also touches on other Sil stories as well. Here are some bits from Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth.
In that vast shadow once of yore Fingolfin stood: his sheild he bore with field of heaven's blue and star of crystal shining pale afar. In overmastering wrath and hate desperate he smote upon that gate. the gnomish king, there standing lone while endless fortresses of stone engulfed the thin clear ringing keen of silver horn on baldric green. His hopeless challenge dauntless cried Fingolfin there: "come open wide dark king your ghastly brazen doors! Come forth, whom earth and heaven abhors! Come forth O monstrous craven lord, and fight with thine own hand and sword thou foe of gods and elvish race! I wait thee here. Come show thy face!" Then Morgoth came. for the last time In those great wars he dared to climb from subterranean throne profound, the rumour of his feet a sound of rumbling earthquake underground. Black armoured, towering, iron crowned he issued forth; his mighty shield a vast unblazoned sable field with shadow like a thundercloud; o'er the gleaming king it bowed as huge aloft like mace he hurled that hammer of the underworld. Thrice was Fingolfin with great blows to his knees beaten, thrice he rose still leaping up beneath the cloud aloft to hold star shining, proud, his stricken shield, his sundered helm, that dark nor might could overwhelm till all the earth was burst and rent in pits about him. He was spent. His feet stumbled. He fell to wreck upon the ground, and on his neck a foot like rooted hills was set, he was crushed - not conquered yet One last desperate stroke he gave: the mighty foot pale Ringil clave. Last edited by squinteyedsoutherner : 12-15-2002 at 06:02 PM. |
12-15-2002, 11:50 AM | #14 | |
Elven Warrior
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I agree that it could be the bondage of the world. It could also be the bondage of being alone, i.e., bondage to oneself.
ALONE, adj. In bad company. In contact, lo! the flint and steel, By spark and flame, the thought reveal That he the metal, she the stone, Had cherished secretly alone. -- Ambrose Bierce The Devil's Dictionary, ca. 1911
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12-15-2002, 04:58 PM | #15 |
The Insufferable
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I highly recommend the lays of beleiand for anyone who likes tolkien. The Lay of Leithan is perhaps my favorite of all tolkien's works.
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12-15-2002, 06:27 PM | #16 |
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Thanks, artanis and squinteyedsoutherner - those are really lovely! I was going to get PoME next, now I'm not sure....
(yes, I meant HoME 3 )
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-15-2002, 06:30 PM | #17 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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What does "Leithian" mean?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-15-2002, 07:02 PM | #18 |
Elf Lord
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I believe it is actually spelled "Leithien". Leithien = "release from bondage".
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12-16-2002, 06:40 PM | #19 |
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The title reads 'Leithian'.
Isn't Leithien a later emendation?
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12-16-2002, 08:02 PM | #20 |
Elf Lord
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Probably. Check the Lord of the Rings, Book I, "A Knife in the Dark". I have a hunch it will say "Leithien" there, but maybe I'm wrong.
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