10-14-2003, 11:39 PM | #1 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Sexual assault among high school teammates
The last couple of weeks the news has been covering two sexual abuse cases that occurred between high school teammates. The first one - is being called a "hazing" incident - but really it's sexual abuse.
A high school football team from Long Island was at a summer camp in Pennsylvania. While there some of the varsity players sodomized some of the younger players with a broom stick, golf ball and a pine cone. The younger players are 13 and 14 and the varsity players ranged in age from 15 - 17. Other players watched. No one said anything about the incident until one boy's bleeding wouldn't stop for 3 days - he finally told his parents. The entire football season is cancelled - some parents are outraged by this. You can read more about the incident here... Hazing Scandal Rocks School on Long Island High School's Hazing Investigation Casts Pall Over New School Year Three Varsity Football Players On LI Suspended For Hazing Incident Students Protest Football Season Cancellation in Hazing Ritual Pennsylvania DA Says School District is Stonewalling Hazing Investigation Pennsylvania DA Vows Justice In Probe Of LI School Hazing Scandal Brutal Hazing Charges Nothing New at Mepham High Mepham Coach Denies Any Responsibility in Hazing; Says Players Kept Secrets D.A. Seeks to Charge Teens as Adults in Hazing Scandal Will Teens in Mepham Hazing Scandal be Charged as Adults? Decision Expected Today Complete Search Results Here is an episode that occurred in a high school locker room - Officials Investigating Charges Of Abuse In Baldwin High School Locker Room Baldwin Teenagers Charged With Sexually Assaulting Classmate The most recent incident occurred to a 14 year old soccer player by a 17 year old. Supposedly soemthing happened on the field and then in the locker room the 17 year old and two other players held the 14 year old down while the 17 year old sexually assualted him. They don't say how he was sexually assualted. This is the only thing I could find right now on the web - but we have had this in our news for about the past week, Quote:
I was just wondering about other people's thoughts on this. What also seems strange is that this happens in front of many of the other players. I would think they would look at it as something "gay" - but that doesn't seem to be the case at all.
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10-15-2003, 12:04 AM | #2 |
the dumb stoner canuck
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eeeeew man thats disturbing. he was bleeding *shudders* oh my god what sick people. that is nuts.
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10-15-2003, 12:23 AM | #3 | |
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
--Dave
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10-15-2003, 04:07 AM | #4 | |
Elf Lord
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Re: Sexual assault among high school teammates
Quote:
Picking out the weakest ones in a group and humiliating them is, paradoxically, the best way of ensuring that they sign up to the group's behaviour. Individuals would much rather go along with the group than be the one picked on. Truly disgusting, these people should be exposed in public, go to jail and have their careers ruined (in that order). Using terms like "hazing" seems like a way of downgrading the seriousness of it. |
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10-15-2003, 06:53 AM | #5 |
The Dude
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yeah well this sort of thing totally cements my feelings towards the 'Jocks'... i seriously dont see a lot of good things to come out of sporting organisations. sure i did the soccer, footy and cricket thing when i was in primary school but i outgrew it and i'm far the better for it, i think what is much better is having a group of good mates that you can go kick the footy with, without having a bunch of sick ****s with issues abusing you, id say at 17 and in those circumstances a scapegoat isnt always needed maybe they just have issues with their sexuality which i think is more likely to be the case...
an incident like this happened in one of Sydneys best private schools where a group of male borders continually abused younger borders with dildo's they had made in their woodwork class... maybe a solution to these problems would be cracking down on sexual abuse in all its forms, whether it be the confused youths in the schoolyard or the sick bastard that gives the sermon in church.
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10-15-2003, 08:01 AM | #6 |
im quite stupid
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The way we haze in new members to a team is each member of the team has to buy the new lad a drink and the new lad has to drink it. Sound pretty nice doesnt it? well not if there 20+ people in the team
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10-15-2003, 08:06 AM | #7 | |
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
There is no connection between being an athlete and being an abuser, and there is nothing wrong with being a competitive person. These kids don’t have issues with their sexuality. That’s an understatement. What they have is an indoctrinated perversion.
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10-15-2003, 08:17 AM | #8 |
The Dude
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hey i agree that the majority of sexual abuse would come from parents and i dont think there is a working solution for that yet, but as you can see the 'jocks and preachers' do get the media coverage, and if its going to be made an issue out of it should be portrayed in the worst light so as their can be no question as to whether you will be punished for sexual abuse...
you may be right but my opinion is that a lot of youths around the 13-18 age group are confused about their sexuality and i cant do this without stereotyping but the 'jocks' IMO would be the ones least able to confront their sexuality... could you please just explain what you mean by them having an 'indoctrinated perversion'
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10-15-2003, 09:56 AM | #9 |
Elven Warrior
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Indoctrinated perversion? Modern psychology has provided well documented case studies indicating that most abnormal behaviors, including sexual deviancies, are learned behaviors. For example, many child molesters were themselves molested as children. However, there is still a significant portion of child abusers and other sexual deviants that do not fit neatly into this category. Just because a sexual deviant was not molested or abused as a child does not mean that their deviant behaviors were not learned.
It is becoming increasingly clear that changing societal norms, or mores, is the culprit. A social ethic of freedom that posits people have a “right” to do what ever they want to do has taken the place of teaching children an ethic based on virtue. If you define freedom as the right to do whatever you want, to fulfill whatever you desire, it follows that those with socially deviant desires (and to one degree or another we have all had some kind of socially deviant desire) find an ethical system that justifies acting upon these deviant desires. Now place next to this a mass media that has turned sexual deviancy into a billion dollar business. How can people be surprised when they see such horrendous acts sexual deviancy reported in the evening news, when all they have to do is flip the channel a few times to see sex selling anything from beer to music albums? The advertisers will make little profit by portraying human sexuality as something sacred, and something that by its very purpose requires responsible behavior and accountability. They make much more money by portraying human sexuality as the object of a desire that we all have the right, even the ethical obligation, to fulfill as often as possible with as many swimsuit models or hunks as possible. This is an oversimplification, of course. The problem revolves around the issue of primary indoctrination, and as such is affected by various and very complex social issues, such as poverty, working parent and one parent family structures, education (both of parents and children), the lack of mutually supportive communities, the depravations of isolated or atomic individualism, moral relativism, social constructs based on subjective philosophical constructs, etc., etc., etc. Keeping this in mind, I think its abundantly clear: modern society isn’t all its cracked up to be, despite the arrogance of our enlightened forefathers. What makes you think that high school athletes are somehow less equipped to deal with human sexuality? That seems to be a rather prejudicial remark. Do you have any kind of supporting evidence to back up such a claim?
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10-15-2003, 10:20 AM | #10 |
Banned
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Damn!!! That's truely disgusting!!! That's NOT hazing! You are right! That's sexual abuse, if not outright rape. I can't believe that the 13/14 year olds said... "oh, ok... go ahead and stick that broom/golf ball/pine cone up my ass... it's cool." As for why the other players didn't do anything and why they don't consider it a homosexual act, it's like what happens in prison I guess. I've heard that inmates that rape other inmates don't consider themselves "gay". Edit: Just curious, I wonder what these guys would be charged with if the victims were girls and not boys. I think that the parents are trying to keep the stain of a homosexual rape charge off their sons' records. "Oh, yes, that is true my son has a criminal record.. what did he do? ... oh, he violently raped another boy with a foreign object so bad that the boy bled for 3 days." Now that's something a parent can be proud of. Last edited by Ruinel : 10-15-2003 at 10:33 AM. |
10-15-2003, 10:49 AM | #11 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Some problems with this essay are: 1) If moral relativism is part of the problem, how come some of the worst perpetrators are moral absolutists (e.g. priests)? (Moral relativism is not the same as moral poverty, as you describe the media) 2) I'm not sure it's established that these things happen any more often now than they did in the past. We certainly hear more about them now, but that could well be down to people being more likely to speak up about it, which in turn might be because society is less morally restrictive so they feel they can be more open about it. Just a thought. Like the avatar, btw. |
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10-15-2003, 02:11 PM | #12 | |
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
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10-15-2003, 03:14 PM | #13 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Quote:
Quote:
As for sexual abuse, people didn't acknowledge sex in public or on tv. So many early television shows showed the husband and wife sleeping in seperate beds. We report sexual events now. What others have said - like the outrageousness of calling this hazing instead of what it is - sexual assault - has been brought up by people in the town.
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10-15-2003, 03:34 PM | #14 | |
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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10-15-2003, 04:47 PM | #15 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-15-2003, 05:21 PM | #16 | |||
Elven Warrior
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Gaffer,
Quote:
Edit: unfortunately, not all Catholic priests are moral absolutists. Quote:
[I’m not sure if this really pertinent to our discussion, but since moral relativism and absolutism has been mentioned in conjunction with restrictive morality… The moral absolutist would hinge ethical behavior on achievement, not restriction… the achievement of a real and objective end to human activity. The moral relativist on the other hand rejects the existence of any objective end to human activity, and thus makes all human activity at worst pointless (i.e. the existentialists), and at best dependent on self interest (economic liberalism) or a will-to-power (German romanticism). If there is no end to be achieved, then there is no other measure more logically applicable to human activity than law. You see, it was the moral relativists, not the absolutists, who brought about the restrictive morality of mid-twentieth century America.] Quote:
Regards, --Dave
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10-16-2003, 04:23 AM | #17 | |||
Elf Lord
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Thanks for replying
Quote:
Quote:
The moral relativist stance I would espouse would be one in which purpose and value are human constructs which do not exist outside of our heads and which have different meanings for each of us. Societal norms derive by some complex social negotiation and interaction, and all are contingent. Even "Thou Shalt Not Kill" is contingent! So, for me, moral relativism is an observed fact, not a stance. Quote:
My point is that moral relativism, as part of this process of establishing norms, validates alternative experiences, and acknowledges the need for respect for each other. Without that, the process becomes authoritarian or totalitarian. Because of this, people who have suffered abuse feel less utterly alone, and that they will not be vilified if they come forward. |
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10-17-2003, 05:57 PM | #18 | ||
Elven Warrior
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I think we are really going off on a thread drift, but maybe this will tie in somehow.
Quote:
Quote:
Totalitarianism is more likely to arise from relativism than absolutism because relativism logically degenerates into restrictive ethics and legalism. As an aside, Victorian age moralists, especially English moralists, were for the most part deists. The deist position is extremely subjective, in as much as it held that morality provided a set code of behavior to enable the commodious functioning and evolution of humanity. Morality, particularly Christian morality, was the agent to keep the cogs of western civilization in line...the deists made religion into the opium of the masses, as Karl Marx so poignantly composed. --Dave
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10-17-2003, 10:33 PM | #19 |
Enting
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I agree that this is a disgusting trend, and while I could wax for some time about the reasoning behind it, my purpose in posting in this thread is to clarify the thread starter's comment on Boy Scouts.
I am a Boy Scout Leader and work during the summers at a Summer Camp. No troop is allowed to stay without an adult leader in their campsite. They are not allowed to share tents with the boys, this is true, but there is always an adult within fifty feet of the boys. Boy Scouts do not just set their youths free with no supervision whatsoever, and allow them to do as they will. The main issue is that no adult may ever be one-on-one with a boy, protecting both the boy and the adult. The Boy Scouts of America stress two-deep leadership, meaning that at least two adults over the age of eighteen must be present during any one-on-one contact with a youth. Just a clarification. Peace to all, ~Percy
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10-17-2003, 11:37 PM | #20 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Quote:
Quote:
Maybe what will happen is that two adults will have to be up all night to make sure the boys themselves aren't doing anything.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-17-2003 at 11:40 PM. |
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