The western world is dying out

[Grey_Wolf]

Asia and Africa will rule this and the next century while Europe and the rest of the western world will wallow in a steadily increasing unemployment and spreading poverty thanks to the companies which sell out their factories and close their offices.

[Valandil]

Disagree... at least with the second half. Africa is a humanitarian crisis... not even waiting to happen - but well under way! Asia is bogged down with problems of its own. If the west falls, we take much of the rest of civilization with us (not intentionally - just by cause-and-effect).

Oh woe unto us... who will rescue us?

The West is failing... (now wait... where have I heard THAT before?? )

[Jonathan]

How pessimistic you are. We are in a recession right now but recessions don't last forever! There is light at the end of the tunnel. Ok, Asia and maybe Africa will become richer in the future but I certainly don't think that "the West is failing"

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally posted by Jonathan
How pessimistic you are. We are in a recession right now but recessions don't last forever! There is light at the end of the tunnel. Ok, Asia and maybe Africa will become richer in the future but I certainly don't think that "the West is failing"

Perhaps you're right. I just feel this way because I've had a hard time finding a new job. The general response to an aplication is "no, we can't employ you" and "no, we have just employed somebody".

But perhaps this downward swing will turn upwards in time for me to not give up hope althogether.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Jonathan
How pessimistic you are. We are in a recession right now but recessions don't last forever! There is light at the end of the tunnel. Ok, Asia and maybe Africa will become richer in the future but I certainly don't think that "the West is failing"

i agree with Jonathan here. Without the West to BUY the products that are currently made in Africa and Asia - they are nothing. The companies would close down. Also - as he said - we are only in a recession - and actually we aren't even in a recession anymore (at least the US) - just a slow growth period. After two decades of growth - it was time for a correction - nothing lasts forever and we are finally coming out of this slow period.

That having been said - I wish they would not be shipping high tech programming jobs to India. The US has been becoming a high tech/service country and now they are shipping our jobs over seas. There aren't other industries to replace the high tech industry. If the people of the US can' afford to buy the products produced in other countries - the whole world suffers. The US consumer has more disposable income then other counries and we are the one's who buy - but if we're out of work - we can't buy.

And Grey Wolf - I'm in the same position as you it seems. It's very depressing and it sucks - because I'm a computer programmer (Java and PowerBuilder) and it seems like there are NO jobs out there at all. I'm trying to work on my website - but who knows how long that will take and if it will get me anywhere in the end. I have pretty much determined - I need to start my own business - and that starts with getting my dynamic NJ Travel Website up.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Grey_Wolf
Perhaps you're right. I just feel this way because I've had a hard time finding a new job. The general response to an aplication is "no, we can't employ you" and "no, we have just employed somebody".

But perhaps this downward swing will turn upwards in time for me to not give up hope althogether.

In that case Grey Wolf, hang in there! Things will pick up for you. Stay positive and just keep trying and trying and trying!!!

Keep us posted too... through whatever success - or even continued frustration!

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally posted by Valandil
In that case Grey Wolf, hang in there! Things will pick up for you. Stay positive and just keep trying and trying and trying!!!

Keep us posted too... through whatever success - or even continued frustration!

Thank you and I will certainly do so.

[LuthienTinuviel]

you can't find a job? welcome to the growing club.
hang in there.
bush can't preside over his reign of error forever.
*pats grey wolf on the back*

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by LuthienTinuviel
you can't find a job? welcome to the growing club.
hang in there.
bush can't preside over his reign of error forever.

Actually it has nothing to do with Bush - the economy was slowing down before he even got into office. Also - 9/11 wasn't his fault, nor were the corporate scandals.

It's mostly just the natural ebb and flow of the economy.

[brownjenkins]

as Winston Churchill said, "If you're going through hell, keep going."

things always get better (then worse again... but that's the ebb and flow thing )

[Valandil]

Originally posted by LuthienTinuviel
you can't find a job? welcome to the growing club.
hang in there.
bush can't preside over his reign of error forever.
*pats grey wolf on the back*

Uh... besides... Grey Wolf - aren't you in Sweden?

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Valandil
Uh... besides... Grey Wolf - aren't you in Sweden?

The economy here is in a bad condition, more than 10% unemployed, and becuase of all the terror attacksa we loose tourists and investments (from other countries). The goverment tried to solve the problems by giving money to the rich and take from the poor - for that the rich will invest and set up factories, no unemployment, etc, but it doesn't work. And the workers organizations keep striking every time the ministers decide to take more money of them. (=the economical situation is not very good, in one sentence)

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
goverment tried to solve the problems by giving money to the rich and take from the poor - for that the rich will invest and set up factories, no unemployment, etc, but it doesn't work. And the workers organizations keep striking every time the ministers decide to take more money of them. (=the economical situation is not very good, in one sentence)

yeah thats exactly what they are trying here. will they never learn? you cant trickle down your way to a strong economy. but you can make a few rich people richer. so there is always eternal support for that from powerful people.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
yeah thats exactly what they are trying here. will they never learn? you cant trickle down your way to a strong economy. but you can make a few rich people richer. so there is always eternal support for that from powerful people.

That is so full of crap. Without weathly people investing in businesses and peopel starting up new businesses and becoming sucessfull - there is no way to hire the workers. My father started American Inline because of good loans and stuff. That in a way was trickle down. By us opening up American Inline - we were able to emply 300 people.

[Hasty Ent]

Originally posted by Grey_Wolf
Asia and Africa will rule this and the next century while Europe and the rest of the western world will wallow in a steadily increasing unemployment and spreading poverty thanks to the companies which sell out their factories and close their offices.

I hope you're right. Unfortunately, I don't believe you are.

[brownjenkins]

That is so full of crap. Without weathly people investing in businesses and peopel starting up new businesses and becoming sucessfull - there is no way to hire the workers. My father started American Inline because of good loans and stuff. That in a way was trickle down. By us opening up American Inline - we were able to emply 300 people.

there's two sides to every situation... loans start businesses, people with money sustain them... both are important

the real question is when the economy is in a downturn do you stimulate investment, which by it's very nature takes time to "trickle-down"... or do you stimulate consumer spending, which can be near-immediate?

read about reagan in the 80s and you'll see how trickle-down fared

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally posted by Valandil
Uh... besides... Grey Wolf - aren't you in Sweden?

Yes, I live in Sweden. I applied for several jobs this summer (perhaps not best of times to do that, but what do you do when you simply do not want to be unemployed).

Anyway I'm going to keep on trying even if one sometimes feels it's useless.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
there's two sides to every situation... loans start businesses, people with money sustain them... both are important

the real question is when the economy is in a downturn do you stimulate investment, which by it's very nature takes time to "trickle-down"... or do you stimulate consumer spending, which can be near-immediate?

Well the only way to stimulate consumer spending is to give back more money to the peopel so they can SPEND their money.

read about reagan in the 80s and you'll see how trickle-down fared

It basically gave us 2 decades of growth actually.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
That is so full of crap. Without weathly people investing in businesses and peopel starting up new businesses and becoming sucessfull - there is no way to hire the workers. My father started American Inline because of good loans and stuff. That in a way was trickle down. By us opening up American Inline - we were able to emply 300 people.

Jersey get real its a WELL established fact that when you cut taxes to the rich and make them richer THEY are the ones that benefit MUCH more then the poor. Please show me how the POOR are benefiting MORE by tax cuts that save the RICH and big business billions. Its happening again now with Bush's silly tax cut. You had the rich benefiting, the middle class getting this joke of a $400 refund thats basically meaningless and the poor not getting hired for jobs because the jobs arent being created. wheres your trickle down? It doesnt work long term. It has been shown again and again and again not just here but all over the world. When the rich spend as much as the government on federal and state programs that help the poor and the middle class THEN you can make the argument that trickle down economics (better known as voodoo economics) is the best thing ever. In the mean time get yourself unstuck out of early 80s economic thinking. Yer showing your age.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Jersey get real its a WELL established fact that when you cut taxes to the rich and make them richer THEY are the ones that benefit MUCH more then the poor. Please show me how the POOR are benefiting MORE by tax cuts that save the RICH and big business billions. Its happening again now with Bush's silly tax cut. You had the rich benefiting, the middle class getting this joke of a $400 refund thats basically meaningless and the poor not getting hired for jobs because the jobs arent being created. wheres your trickle down? It doesnt work long term. It has been shown again and again and again not just here but all over the world. When the rich spend as much as the government on federal and state programs that help the poor and the middle class THEN you can make the argument that trickle down economics (better known as voodoo economics) is the best thing ever. In the mean time get yourself unstuck out of early 80s economic thinking. Yer showing your age.

Percentage wise the POOR got a bigger tax break than the wealthy. Of course when the rich get even a 1% tax break they will get more money back - they have MORE money.

Why don't we just take ALL o fhte rich people's money and just give it all to the poor and not have the poor have to work or pay any taxes. Would that be a better way of doing things? Would that satisfy you? Give me a break. Liberals always want to look at tax cuts as dollar amounts and and refuse to look at the percentage. Too many people are too stupid to look at the percentages. I will repeat the LOWER CLASSES - middle class and UNDER got bigger percentage in the tax cuts than the rich. The democrats got up and gave speeches that they weere upset that the peopel who did NOT pay taxes didn't get a tax cut. If they don't pay taxes - how are they supposed to get a tax cut?

IR - you are the one that needs to start living in the real world.

Oh and VooDoo economics was the term used by liberals as a way of discrediting it - even though the same policies were in place under Clinton too. That was a 2 decade growth period in the economy.