11-23-2004, 05:39 PM | #1 | |
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Rebels at the 3rd kinslaying
The remnants of Fëanor's sons did not have full support from their own people during the attack on the Elven dwellings by Sirion:
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Edit: I'll give you a proof of my poor English comprehension and ask a question ... does "slain upon the other part" mean that they were slain by the Fëanoreans or the people of Sirion ... Edit2: And what do you make of "the sorrow and confusion in the hearts of the Eldar"?
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11-23-2004, 05:40 PM | #2 |
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I think to them it would be as they were defending, not attacking.
Didn't the same sort of thing happen in Doriath to?
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
11-23-2004, 05:46 PM | #3 | |
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11-23-2004, 06:36 PM | #4 | |||
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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11-24-2004, 05:18 AM | #5 |
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They probably just had enough of the cruel deeds of the Brothers and couldn't justify any longer the need to attack innocent, vulnerable people, catching them pretty much at unawares.
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11-24-2004, 05:27 PM | #6 | ||
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11-24-2004, 06:10 PM | #7 |
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I think that Durin1 posted what I think: that of all the cruel, ruthless things that the sons of Fëanor committed, this was the cruellest and most senseless. The proper enemy of the Eldar was Morgoth, not their innocent fellow-elves. This, plus the slaying of the rebels by the "loyal" Fëanorists, would be enough to cause sadness and confusion among the Eldar.
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11-25-2004, 04:53 AM | #8 |
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The Feanorians attacked groups of people who had been survivors from the systematic destruction of all the major elvish strongholds by the power of Morgoth. It probably seemed to many of the Feanorians that there was no specific purpose to the attacks, since they were only going to end up as being mere fodder for Morgoth's army: to pick up the winnings from from elves who were busy fighting amongst themselves.
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11-25-2004, 10:16 AM | #9 | |
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11-29-2004, 05:46 PM | #10 | |
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Celebrimbor too, one could argue... I have a question: why is the 3rd kinslaying considered worse than the others or the burning of the ships or what have you...? I might be missing something, but I just don't see it...
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11-29-2004, 06:35 PM | #11 | |
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The burning of the ships is another matter, though it was a serious betrayal, Fëanor did not intend to kill anyone by that act (he only ended up killing his own son, by one of the versions of the story). Of course many Elves of Fingolfin's people perished in the Grinding Ice, but Fëanor did not expect them to take that way, he expected them to return to the Valar.
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11-30-2004, 01:40 PM | #12 | |||
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11-30-2004, 03:48 PM | #13 |
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Even if Feanor is an idiot, he is one of Tolkiens greatest characters. and one of the most skilled. but yes, I agree with you, he is not in he best mental sense..
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11-30-2004, 04:09 PM | #14 | |
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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12-01-2004, 12:01 PM | #15 | |
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12-01-2004, 01:30 PM | #16 |
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I'll rephrase.
Maybe destroying the good part of Feanor could be one of Morgoth's greates accomplishments. That better?
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
12-01-2004, 02:35 PM | #17 |
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Sorry T_D, I'm sure it is my bad English comprehension.
And sorry everyone for being totally off topic.
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12-01-2004, 08:40 PM | #18 | ||
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But still an idiot. Quote:
I know what you mean, though perhaps "worst deeds" would be a better way to put it, well... unless you're an orc.
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12-02-2004, 07:14 AM | #19 |
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Back to the topic: As said before, the first kinslaying at Aqualonde was not planed, and thus it was not as cruel as the last.
The second kinslaying was the first planed war of elves against elves, but it was not unexpected by Dior. He did fight the Feanorians at the eastern border of Doriath, and that does mean he was smart enough to know they would attack him after the not very fruitful talk to Curufin. The attack on the Havens was unlocked for. If we read the account carefully we can even get the impression that the claim of the Feanorians was not rejected entirely but was postponed until Earendil was back. It is sad that Tolkien never gave a detailed account of the debate of the brothers before the attack on the havens. It would be interesting to know who did initiate that cruellest kinslaying, since the most sinister of the brethren were already dead. Respectfully Findegil |
12-02-2004, 01:05 PM | #20 | |||
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The published Silmarillion says the kinslaying at the Havens came after a period where Maedhros held back and restrained himself, remembering Doriath, but in the end was driven to attack by the oath. In contrast they did not hesitate at all before attacking Dior. Quote:
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