02-06-2006, 08:16 PM | #1 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Gays, lesbians, bisexuals, PART II
Here we go again.
This is a continuation of the original thread found at http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...?t=6075&page=1 Last edited by Sister Golden Hair
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02-10-2006, 12:02 PM | #2 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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...All is as it was before..."The Guardian of Forever"
In all honesty, none of the objections came through my computer while I was on yesterday (which was up until 1520hrs EST). Had I noted them, I would have yielded to the requests.
I carry twenty-three great wounds, all got in battle. Seventy-five men have I killed with my own hands in battle. I scatter, I burn my enemies' tents. I take away their flocks and herds. The Turks pay me a golden treasure, yet I am poor! Because *I* am a river to my people! |
02-10-2006, 01:08 PM | #3 | ||
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Thank you Spock! *hugs*
I think we were at a bit of a lull in the conversation at the end of the last thread. Here is an interesting article from the Xtra West we can talk about if you guys want (but we don't have to). It's about the age of consent for youth with respect to gay and straight relationships. I think that the age of consent for sex is determined by province. It also seems like it's defined seperately for different sexual acts (types of sex? ), specifically anal sex and vaginal sex or oral sex (basically, I guess not anal sex). Targeting anal sex seems like targeting gays. In some provinces the age of consent for anal sex is higher than other kinds. I'm actually quite surprised Harper has started out with a bill on sex. I thought he'd take less risks launching his minority government (is he even sworn in yet?). But that's for the Canadian election thread. Or politics, since the election is over. Anyway, what are your thoughts on the article? I think what they should be doing with the age of consent is making it the same for all sex. Sex is sex, it doesn't matter what goes where. This attitude will also help dispel harmful attitutes about sex, like people thinking they're still virgins if they've only had oral sex. I think there should be an age of consent, but I don't think one type of sex should be treated differently than others because there isn't really a difference. What do you guys think? Or do you want to talk about something else?
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02-10-2006, 01:57 PM | #4 | |
of the House of Fëanor
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~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 02-10-2006 at 01:58 PM. |
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02-10-2006, 01:59 PM | #5 | |||
Elf Lord
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And, no all sex is not created equal, Nurv. Oral does not equal anal does not equal vaginal - especially in risks regards. But since I know basically hetero data and we're not included in this thread, I'm not telling!
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02-10-2006, 02:24 PM | #6 | |
of the House of Fëanor
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Quote:
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02-10-2006, 03:20 PM | #7 |
the Shrike
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The age of consent is 16 here. And I firmly think that the age of consent should be consistently the same across the board, regardless of whether it is vaginal or anal. ::shrug::
Oh, and Ink? Since I'm pretty sure that most people display tendencies of bisexuality, then we're covered under that. Seriously though, I'm not sure that a discussion of heterosexuality is appropriate in a thread about homosexuality. *shrug*
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02-10-2006, 03:29 PM | #8 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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I too agree with the age of consent; if they can drive at 16-as they can here- then perhaps that age should hold for sexual subjects too. Of course the argument is that they are still too young and should wait until 18, thus in keeping with the drinking and draft laws, has its supporters also. All in all a most troubling and difficult thing to lock down, IMO.
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02-10-2006, 05:09 PM | #9 |
The Black Númenórean
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Hah, This thread kinda digressed into a "prove the other debator stupid thread", but for my two cents, I'm Bi as a Bicycle! Ta.
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02-11-2006, 12:22 PM | #10 |
Elf Lord
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Sense of humor on this thread? Nawwwwwwwww!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
02-11-2006, 02:00 PM | #11 | |||||
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If you're not kidding though, why don't we add something like this to the first post: This thread is to discuss any issues relating to lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, transsexual, intersex, two-spirit, gender queer, and questioning people. ETA: This is actually the third incarnation of this thread. Just saying. Quote:
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Equal in terms of consent though, like I said, sex is sex. WRT agreeing to have sex, which is what the age of consent is about, they are all equal.
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 02-11-2006 at 02:02 PM. |
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02-11-2006, 04:30 PM | #12 | |
Elf Lord
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Rape is a legal definition of behavior. Hence it is defined by statute. It is not a matter of volition. E.g., the different states of the USA define sexual intercourse before specific ages as statutory rape because legally before the stated age a person is minor incapable of giving consent. This appears to be what is under discussion in Canada per your link. Notice that the concept is a legal definition. Give your lawmakers your input. It applies to partners of either sex consenting or not because it is legally defined that way. You may choose to debate former President "Slick Willy" Clinton on the issue of what "is" sex legally. I just recall Jay Leno's monologue on that one: "Wasn't sex?! Wasn't sex?! If that had happened anywhere but Pennsylvania Avenue, he'd have found his vehicle upside down in the driveway and on fire, with every stitch of clothes he owned from one end of the street to the other." Some animals are more equal than others. ANIMAL FARM, Geo. Orwell. I'm glad you distinguish between various genital acts which constitute sex in the physical world and the need for various "safe" precautions in regard to those physical differences. On the other hand, don't you mean "consent is consent" where you say "sex is sex"?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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02-11-2006, 04:53 PM | #13 |
The Intermittent One
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over here in UK the age of consent for hetero and homo is 16, although for homo it was 21 for years, then 18, now both are the same - hetero was 16 for many millenia
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02-11-2006, 05:12 PM | #14 | |||||||||
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My point is that the age of consent should apply to all forms of sex. This is a matter determined by the provinces, and in BC I believe this is already the case. Quote:
Dear Bill, Yes, you did have sex with that woman. You're a Rhode Scholar for goodness sake. Sincerely, Nurv Quote:
Do you think the pigs were entitled to live a life of ease in the house while poor Boxer was sent to the glue factory after years of hard work on the farm? I don't know what that has to do with sex though. Quote:
Maybe we should write letters to Trojan about those condoms. I would say that something is safe if there is a minimal acceptable risk to the people involved. Of course, what is acceptable would be defined by the people involved, and that would be different for everyone to a certain degree. There would be some grey area, but maybe we could say that "safe" would be defined by society. For example Quote:
The question is what should that age be, and what kinds of sex should it be for. Quote:
I feel right now there's a good discussion in the thread, and I hope it keeps up. I don't want it to degenerate into "j00 r st00pid!" "z0mg shut up h4terzz!!!1", but I realise it has the potential to. Mooters are too awesome for that though. I'm still laughing at "Slick Willy". Hee.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-12-2006, 12:41 AM | #15 | |
The Black Númenórean
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Quote:
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Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. |
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02-12-2006, 01:41 AM | #16 |
Elf Lord
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I've been debating whether to post on this thread or not for a while now and despite being scared by all the rhetoric being thrown around I've got a good story to tell so:
A few months ago in October I finally admitted to myself that I probably wasn't straight, and as soon as I got the chance, came out to my mother, who now has my undying admiration for being the most tolerant and supportive parent I could possibly wish for. Her response to being told I'm bi was to say that yes, she had suspected this and that we are who we are and was there anyone (male or female) I was interested in? Dad found out from mom and didn't say anything to me on the subject except that the same dating rules apply regardless of my parner's gender and that I should step carefully when dating anyone younger than 18 because if her parents didn't approve they could prosecute due to the age of consent laws. Which means being patient for a few more months...
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02-12-2006, 01:50 AM | #17 |
of the House of Fëanor
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I just wanna say, Brava, bellissima, and you & your girlfriend are the bomb!! It takes a megaton of courage to out like that to parents. Lord knows I never have. Momma just thinks I'm bi-polar and traumatised from my step-dads and stuff; she probably wouldn't even take me seriously if I told her I was bi. Anyway, it doesn't really matter, as I have no woman lover in my life - just my boyfriend & my dearheart best girlfriend, who isn't a love interest THAT way. Lady M, you & your honey are the bomb!
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02-12-2006, 02:29 PM | #18 |
Elf Lord
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Nurv,
"I read Animal Farm too, and are you sure you want to go there? The impression I got from that book was that the attitude "some are more equal than others" does apply to real life, but is still a bad attitude. Do you think the pigs were entitled to live a life of ease in the house while poor Boxer was sent to the glue factory after years of hard work on the farm? I don't know what that has to do with sex though. " I'm just happy to have a chance to contribute to your on-going literary allusion recognition system (LARS). The ANIMAL FARM quotation was a reference to how Slick Willy employed his status as President. Like a pig in Animal Farm's social construct, he argued that he shouldn't be judged by the same standard as ordinary folk. Better? It wasn't about sex at all. It was about the abuse of power. It was speaking truth to privilege. It was ... . . . . . . social commentary.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
02-12-2006, 04:44 PM | #19 |
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16 - Age of consent in NJ
Driver's License varies in every state. Here is NJ: 16- Learner's Permit (have to drive with licensed driver over 21 or something) 17 - Provisional License - can drive by yourself, but with several restrictions. cant driver after Midnight, cant take more than 1 non-related passenger, etc. 18 - FULL License --------- 19 - Can buy Cigarrettes at 19.. just raised from 18 21 - Can legally Drink 21- Can legally Gamble (like casinos, etc. you can buy lotto ticket at 18) --------------------------------- 17 - Can join military with parent permission 18 - Can join military. ------------------------------------------------------------ All these ages are NOT the same. And drinking and gambling is 21 in all states.
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02-12-2006, 07:28 PM | #20 | ||||
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Lady Marion Magdalena, I'm so glad your mom is so supportive of you! It still took a great deal of courage to tell her, you can never know how people react. I'm glad it worked out. Quote:
edit: That makes a lot more sense Inked.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 02-12-2006 at 07:30 PM. |
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