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02-15-2005, 06:15 PM | #1 | ||
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Evidence for Creationism
This thread needs a bump incase we want to continue the O/T discussion from the GLB thread...
Here's an interesting point... IIRC, micro-evolution fits in both Creationist theories and Evolutionist theories. Another interesting point: Evolutionists argue with each other on the fine points of the theory and so do Creationists. I bet Ri has a good explanation of Intelligent Design somewhere, so I'll unearth it... (otherwise, care to re-iterate?) Personally, I like Evolutionism theories to try to explain our origins. Though Creationism theories are also good, I feel that ultimately, they are too easy of an answer. (Though, perhaps I'm misunderstanding the theory.....) There. That should revitalize the discussion. EDIT: (edit moved to new post)
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02-15-2005, 06:26 PM | #2 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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ooooohhhhh nnnnoooo, the topic that won't die!
My main concern in this topic is that people get rid of the false idea that evolution is somehow a scientific fact, when by its very nature of being in the past, it CANNOT be a scientific fact. I think this is important, because if one thinks (wrongly) that evolution is a fact (and I'm talking the most common form of evolution - one that is entirely naturalistic and non-directed), there are important and far-reaching implications that affect every day life. If people accept that, I"m pretty happy! If anyone wants more details on why I think the evidence supports creationism more, here's where I start discussing it: summary posts on why I believe the evidence supports creationism. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-15-2005, 06:32 PM | #3 | ||
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Muahaha...
After much URL tweaking, I have a handy link to Ri's detailed posts about different aspects of Creationism. Excellent and handy link Here are some other of your summary posts from later in the thread.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-15-2005, 10:09 PM | #4 |
Quasi Evil
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Oh are we tilting at wind mills again? Lance anyone?
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
02-15-2005, 10:48 PM | #5 |
avocatus diaboli
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Here's a lance!
Anyone here heard of string theory?
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02-16-2005, 06:53 AM | #6 |
Sapling
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first of all, i am from Europe, so the specifically lead discussion in the US is a rather unknown and from the little i know rather strange debate, ideologically overcharged.
my take on the creationism - evolution debate: if one sees evolution as a teleological process, hence a process development that leads to a certain goal, like a higher form of compexity, or a state of perfection, or to put in other words, that a distinct something develops into another distinct something, i see no insurmountable gap between the both concepts. on the contrary, teleology is the point of view that perfectly connects the question of what being itself is and the plurality of things that are. i am sure most of that has already been said, but that sums up my general point of view. |
02-16-2005, 10:24 AM | #7 | ||
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I've heard of the string theory Elemmire. I have a feeling that one doesn't overlap with Creationism.
Don Quixote de la Mancha has joined the debate?
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-16-2005, 04:31 PM | #8 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Nurv- could you fix your link? You link to a post that is about the fourth or fifth from the starting post. Check out my link above yours - if people are going to read what I wrote, I'd like them to start from the beginning
El - Yes, we've mentioned string theory on this thread - not that any of us understand it! Quote:
IRex - do you disagree with anything I said here: "My main concern in this topic is that people get rid of the false idea that evolution is somehow a scientific fact, when by its very nature of being in the past, it CANNOT be a scientific fact. " Is there anything in this statement that you think is wrong?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-16-2005, 05:39 PM | #9 |
Quasi Evil
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Tons of things have happened in the past that are now FACTS. I dont really see your meaning there at all.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
02-16-2005, 05:52 PM | #10 | |
avocatus diaboli
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Quote:
I'm still trying to get a grasp on it myself. It seems really interesting... There was a tv show on it once, and I didn't realise what they were talking about until there were only 20minutes left... So I kind of understand the implications of the theory, without knowing the background of it! How dreadful... And no, Nurvs... I really don't think that one would go with Creationism myself...
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02-16-2005, 06:37 PM | #11 | |||
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Fact: Fossils exist Theory: Macro-Evolution Law: Gravity I have actually only heard 2 major theories about how life on Earth came to exist in its present form. 1. Religious-based ones. Creationism is the only one I know in any significant detail. 2. Darwin's theories of Evolution, now expanded. I think a significant part of Evolution was scientists who followed Darwin doing their own experiments using the ideas he put forth. The Urey-Miller experiment was one such experiment, and I think we talked about it in this thread. Aside from Evolutionism and Creationism, I actually haven't heard any other explanations. (Of course there are different takes on both theories, so maybe that counts as "another explanation". Such as whoever added up the generation time periods in the Bible to determine the Earth is 6000 years old.)
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-16-2005, 06:41 PM | #12 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Nurv- - could you please change your link in post 1153 to this one :
summary posts on why I believe the evidence supports creationism. Your link points to a post about 4 posts into the discussion. You've missed the entire opening statement and some other stuff. Thanks
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-16-2005, 06:46 PM | #13 | ||
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Sorry R*an, I didn't see your post there. Link = fixed. Stupid url...
In the last "round" of discussions, I think we agreed that Creationism and Evolution were both valid but ultimately unproveable theories, shook hands, and allowed this thread to drift to the bottom. Or maybe I just imagined this because I'm a Bliss-Ninny.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
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02-16-2005, 06:46 PM | #14 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And I will freely admit that many good scientists, doing the best they can with what they DO have and what they CAN test scientifically, think that macroevolution DID happen - i.e., that man, for example, came from a one-celled thingy. But this CANNOT be proven, and that's all I'm plumping for - a simple admission that evolution CANNOT be proven - and MIGHT be wrong.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-16-2005, 06:48 PM | #15 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-16-2005, 07:08 PM | #16 | |||
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Quote:
I think it's appropriate to say "prove" in this case.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
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02-16-2005, 07:11 PM | #17 | |
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<runs off down corridoor> |
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02-16-2005, 11:32 PM | #18 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-16-2005, 11:37 PM | #19 | |
avocatus diaboli
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For all we know, the world could have come into being 5 minutes ago. Everything we believe and think (and think we know) could be nothing more than false memories, so to speak. If there's a power in or outside of the universe that's strong enough to bring everything into existence, it can certainly bring it in the blink of an eye. Sorry guys... My philosophy class is messing with my head... But I still hold that with stuff like this, we can't really know anything.
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02-17-2005, 12:14 AM | #20 | ||
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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