Sport and doping

[Earniel]

We had a long conversation about this a while ago at home and they're have been a number of new cases in the media for a while so I thought it could be an interesting topic to put before the mooters.

So what are your thoughts on doping in sport? Maybe a few more specific questions to get things started.

Should all substances that give the least bit of advantage over fellow sportsmen be banned? Should sportsmen who are caught using, give up their medals, titles and records? What about sportsmen who have a doctor's note that allows them to use redlisted substances?

Or is doping so much a reality that no one can win any longer without it and that we shouldn't waste time and effort on digging the dirt out?

Looking forward to reading the mooters opinions.

[trolls' bane]

Frankly, if people just knew what was best for them, or rather, society as a whole and the greater good, it wouldn't have to be illegal, nor be a problem in the first place.

Call me a leftist, but if things were the way they were supposed to be this wouldn't be an issue. I have no comment on the actual intended question.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

I have no comment on the actual intended question.

Hm, I'm not letting you off so easily. Do you mean that, if 'things were the way they're supposed to be', people just wouldn't use any doping in the first place, or do you mean that enhancing substances shouldn't be illegal in sports? Come on, TB, elaborate!

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Hm, I'm not letting you off so easily. Do you mean that, if 'things were the way they're supposed to be', people just wouldn't use any doping in the first place, or do you mean that enhancing substances shouldn't be illegal in sports? Come on, TB, elaborate!

Neither, Comrade. Just look at the bigger picture here! Nothing should be expressly illegal, by law, that is. Law is only a means to protect humanity from itself. But suppose that humans didn't need to be protected from themselves, suppose things were "the way they were supposed to be," wherein people did things right from the getgo, being above such imbecilic and material escapes and so-called enhancements put forth as these so-called "enhancing substances." No, I don't think it should be illegal. I think that such a practice should not exist in the first place.

Oh, and if you're wondering why I seem a little bitter, I found out today that someone stole and monopolized upon my idea of using oxygen as a sort of safe-and-beneficent-in-slightly-elevated-doses drug. It wouldn't be toxic in any way, rather it would be beneficent in the short term, and effect less in the long-run. And they flavored it! Does that kill the idea, or what!? Put to shame. Flavored oxygen? It makes me sick. And they offered it to me. They offered me my own invention! I flatly refused.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

So what are your thoughts on doping in sport? Maybe a few more specific questions to get things started.

Should all substances that give the least bit of advantage over fellow sportsmen be banned? Should sportsmen who are caught using, give up their medals, titles and records? What about sportsmen who have a doctor's note that allows them to use redlisted substances?

Or is doping so much a reality that no one can win any longer without it and that we shouldn't waste time and effort on digging the dirt out?

I'm very much against doping in sports. For me as a spectator, it takes away a lot of the fun to see a doped athlete win against clean opponents. I think an athlete should win by being better trained or by having better skills, technique or tactics than the opponents - not because he or she has taken performance-enhancing drugs while the opponents haven't.

Of course if doping was allowed, there wouldn't be a problem. The sportsmen would all be doped and have to rely on skills, technique etc. anyway.
But performance-enhancing drugs must not be allowed in sports. I think there is a certain charm to know that what the sportsmen achieve is not fake or unnatural - it's achieved by an immense amount of training and excercise and is completely natural. I appreciate knowing this when I watch sports (even though many sportsmen are undoubtedly secretely doped anyway).
Also, most performance-enhancing drugs are more or less harmful. If doping was allowed, sportsmen would have the pressure on them to use these drugs. Otherwise, they wouldn't last long against their doped opponents. It is not morally acceptable that kind of pressure on them, i.e. to indirectly force them take harmful substances just so they can continue to practice their sports and do their jobs.

It is a complex matter to define which substances may or may not be used. One must make separate rules about each family of drugs and sometimes have different regulations concerning substances within a single family. One simply can't judge every drug alike. Also, the substance, the amount of substance and wether there's a prescription should be taken into account when the anti-doping agencies and others decide on the punishment and whether medals, records etc. should be cancelled.

I'm optimistic enough to believe that a significant number of sportsmen don't use forbidden substances and therefore, it is important to keep making big efforts to catch those sportsmen who do. Clean sportsmen can still make a good showing and win without taking to performance enhancing drugs.

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

Oh, and if you're wondering why I seem a little bitter, I found out today that someone stole and monopolized upon my idea of using oxygen as a sort of safe-and-beneficent-in-slightly-elevated-doses drug. It wouldn't be toxic in any way, rather it would be beneficent in the short term, and effect less in the long-run. And they flavored it! Does that kill the idea, or what!? Put to shame. Flavored oxygen? It makes me sick. And they offered it to me. They offered me my own invention! I flatly refused.

But Troll's Bane, using oxygen as a drug is hardly a new invention! People have gotten high on oxygen for years. Although flavoured oxygen is news to me. Haha!

For your information, oxygen in concentrations higher than in the air we breathe, is toxic. Free radicals you know. They damage your retina among other things.

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

For your information, oxygen in concentrations higher than in the air we breathe, is toxic. Free radicals you know. They damage your retina among other things.

I'm shocked and appalled! It's someone else's invention!

[Insidious Rex]

The use of performance enhancing drugs in sports will forever be a problem unfortunately. With millions of dollars at stake in big time sports you will always have people willing to do whatever it takes to be the best. And the technological advances in sports medicine and performance enhancing substances will always keep the authorities chasing the users. Should it be legal? I think you can make a pretty good argument on why you keep the harmful substances illegal. Steroids kill. But other compounds may not be as harmful. Then you get into the realm of unfair playing fields. But theres a problem there… The playing field is ALWAYS unfair. Sports programs who recruit the very best athletes can afford to give them the very best coaches, the very best training facilities and weight programs, the very best trainers and doctors etc. So isn’t that an unfair advantage? How come that’s not a problem but say blood doping is? If everyone was blood doping wouldn’t the playing field be level? Ive never really known where to come down on these kinds of tricky questions…

But steroids should be banned. They harm and kill and we shouldn’t promote them to our youth as the way you become good. Its troubling to see the situation in baseball in our country currently. You have one of the most venerated records in ANY sport about to be broken by a man widely despised by most fans because there is so much evidence pointing to the fact that he used performance enhancing drugs to achieve his great accomplishments. For me there will always be an asterix next to Barry Bonds name in the record books and that’s unfortunate because its not as if he was some chump without the drugs. With or without performance enhancing drugs Barry Bonds is one of the greatest athletes to ever play the game. That’s the really sad part. Frankly I think the use of such substances was so widespread in baseball during that its hard to fault any one player. They were doing what they had to do at their level. And the money involved with hitting 70+ home runs in a season was too great for the league to step in and say anything until it was far too late.

Anyway Im babbling because how often does anything remotely connected to sports actually come up at the moot…

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

No, I don't think it should be illegal. I think that such a practice should not exist in the first place.

Thanks for explaining.

Although, if this was a perfect world we probably wouldn't have half the topics we have now to talk about.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

I think there is a certain charm to know that what the sportsmen achieve is not fake or unnatural - it's achieved by an immense amount of training and excercise and is completely natural. I appreciate knowing this when I watch sports (even though many sportsmen are undoubtedly secretely doped anyway).

I quite agree. It's because that kind of charm that I sometimes watch sports. A talent in sports is to be admired, in a way. Sports still have that image of healthy and natural, to show and push the limits of human capacity. To use drugs to achieve them is just well... wrong.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

I'm optimistic enough to believe that a significant number of sportsmen don't use forbidden substances and therefore, it is important to keep making big efforts to catch those sportsmen who do.

I think one has to stay optimistic in that way, because otherwise sports would lose a lot of their meaning.

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

With or without performance enhancing drugs Barry Bonds is one of the greatest athletes to ever play the game. That’s the really sad part.

That's indeed a sad consequence. One instance of drug use besmirch an entire career. We had a similar instance here of a sportsman who was considered for many years as one of our best sportsmen with quite a list of achievements. Now that he admitted to having used at least once, there are many people who regard all of his achievements, whether they were won with or without drugs, as faked.

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Thanks for explaining.

Although, if this was a perfect world we probably wouldn't have half the topics we have now to talk about.

True indeed. But I don't want it to be a perfect world, just a better one. If the world was perfect, we'd all be a bunch of snobbish idiots and then it would only be perfect superficially. Hell on Earth, in other words.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Anyway Im babbling because how often does anything remotely connected to sports actually come up at the moot…

I hear you.

[The Gaffer]

Agree with those sentiments. It devalues the spectactle if the dude is doped up. It also sends out very, very bad messages about cheating to kids who look up to these stars. And also, the long-term effects are bad.

It seems as if the line has softened in recent years. There's plenty of guys in the Tour de France right now who have records. Mind you, if they disqualified them all they wouldn't have any riders left.

Maybe they should have a doped-up Olympics as well as a disabled one. We can have side bets on who collapses from a coronary during the race.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

It seems as if the line has softened in recent years. There's plenty of guys in the Tour de France right now who have records. Mind you, if they disqualified them all they wouldn't have any riders left.

Funny, I would say the Tour has toughened up a bit this year, after last year's winner was accused of doping. Testing seems to have gone up, as they did catch some users, even high-profile ones. And several teams had their riders sign a specific contract that (if I recall correctly) would spell immediate dismissal AND a fine of their entire earnings of a year if they got caught using.