Dinosaurs!!!

[Lief Erikson]

This thread is for general discussion of the dinosaurs. Debate involving their extinction is welcome. Conversation about various species or digs is welcome . They are such an exciting aspect of Earth's history, there should be a thread for them.

I will start this thread by bringing up an exciting new article I found on BBC today.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4223658.stm

Originally Posted by BBC News

Scientists are only now starting to recognise the astonishing size reached by pterosaurs, the flying reptiles that lived at the time of the dinosaurs.

New discoveries in the Americas suggest some had wingspans of 18m (60ft).

But there was nothing ugly about the way they moved through the air, according to expert Dr David Martill, of the University of Portsmouth.

Their ability to utilise air currents, thermals and ground effects would astonish aeroplane designers, he said.

"Pterosaurs were beautifully engineered," he told BBC News.

"Their skeletons were exceedingly light: their bones were very thin and hollow, and those hollows were filled with an air-sack system. They'd also got rid of their reptilian scales and their wing membrane was very, very thin.

"All this meant there wasn't that much weight to get off the ground, and so they probably flew really rather well," the researcher said.

The oldest pterosaur fossils date back 220 million years and scientists have now identified several different forms - some with teeth, some without; and some sporting elaborate head crests.

With their membranous wings attached to their legs, there was something bat-like about them, and their long beaks look like some bird species - but scientists stress they have no line to any living creatures.

Indeed, there is still great debate about where exactly they should be placed in the evolution of life forms on Earth. Dr Martill told the British Association's Festival of Science in Dublin that new discoveries would help solve this riddle - and perhaps reveal just how big these beasts managed to grow.

60 feet!!! Now that's something I definitely did not know. I knew they grew huge, but my most recent information put the wingspread at about a third of that.

[Spock]

And something like that could possible explain the multi-cultural, multi-national phenomena known as dragons.

[Lief Erikson]

If I saw a sixty foot wingspan reptile soaring toward me, I certainly would think, "dragon!" before anything else .

[Lief Erikson]

It is an impressive . . . coincidence? . . . that our "mythological" dragons so closely resemble in size, proportions and other qualities, the creatures from our ancient past.

I personally don't think it was a coincidence, because I think that there was a time when dinosaurs and people lived together- a time that the Book of Genesis actually references once. According to the Bible, the fact that serpents crawl on their bellies now is a curse of God, and in the past they used to stand upright! That sounds to me like dinosaurs . If the Bible's writers didn't know about dinosaurs, they would have had to be saying that snakes hopped around on their tails! A pretty ridiculous notion, and I don't think the Bible writers thought that . The dinosaurs fit perfectly their description of the transformation of the serpent.

That textual, ancient evidence alone is not conclusive, but it is worth something. The widespread tales of reptilian beasts that stood on their hind legs and flew through the air also indicate that ancient thought had definitely not forgotten the creatures of our past. If all they knew was ancient mammals, one would think that they would be describing enormous carnivorous lions, or something like that. Instead, they vividly capture a snapshot of creatures that supposedly wandered our globe 60 million years ago, and no sooner.

[Rían]

I have a great kid's book called "oh my oh my oh dinosaurs!" by Sandra Boynton, that really funny illustrator. All I can remember now is "dinosaurs early, dinosaurs later, dinosaurs stuck in an elevator!"

I'll have to find it and share that great literary gem with you guys!

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I have a great kid's book called "oh my oh my oh dinosaurs!" by Sandra Boynton, that really funny illustrator. All I can remember now is "dinosaurs early, dinosaurs later, dinosaurs stuck in an elevator!"

I'll have to find it and share that great literary gem with you guys!

Rian! Now I'm gonna go to sleep with that little phrase stuck in my head; it's too cute... "dinosaurs early, dinosaurs later, dinosaurs stuck in an elevator..."

Maybe dinosaurs DID have something to do with dragons. Hmm, dinosaurs & dragons. I'm gonna have fun dreams tonight!

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I have a great kid's book called "oh my oh my oh dinosaurs!" by Sandra Boynton, that really funny illustrator. All I can remember now is "dinosaurs early, dinosaurs later, dinosaurs stuck in an elevator!"

When I was a lot younger, I used to get thrilled by the dinosaur ride at Knott's Berry Farm.

Perhaps you've been there, Lotesse?

I was so into dinosaurs. The horde of them in one of my toy bins testifies to it .

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I'll have to find it and share that great literary gem with you guys!

Do .

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Rian! Now I'm gonna go to sleep with that little phrase stuck in my head; it's too cute... "dinosaurs early, dinosaurs later, dinosaurs stuck in an elevator..."

Catchy, isn't it?! Sweet dreams!

[Grey_Wolf]

You People must love The Dinosaur Discovery Channel (me and mum call it that cause whenever we flip to that channel, by Jove, if there isn't a dinosaur-program on.)

[Jonathan]

I suggest the title be changed to Dinosaurs and extinct reptlies or similar because technically, pterosaurs and pleisosaurs (flying and swimming reptiles) aren't dinosaurs

Now that discovery of the flying reptile in America with an 18-metre-wingspan is really fascinating. That's a lot bigger than a Cessna plane! It's amazing that such a big thing could be light enough to leave the ground!

[Lief Erikson]

Yeah, really. Perhaps they lived primarily on cliffs?

I wonder what the thing ate. I have a tough time imagine something that big filling itself entirely on little fishies .

[Bombadillo]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

I suggest the title be changed to Dinosaurs and extinct reptlies or similar because technically, pterosaurs and pleisosaurs (flying and swimming reptiles) aren't dinosaurs

No!? What's the difference?

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

It is an impressive . . . coincidence? . . . that our "mythological" dragons so closely resemble in size, proportions and other qualities, the creatures from our ancient past.

I personally don't think it was a coincidence, because I think that there was a time when dinosaurs and people lived together- a time that the Book of Genesis actually references once. According to the Bible, the fact that serpents crawl on their bellies now is a curse of God, and in the past they used to stand upright! That sounds to me like dinosaurs . If the Bible's writers didn't know about dinosaurs, they would have had to be saying that snakes hopped around on their tails! A pretty ridiculous notion, and I don't think the Bible writers thought that . The dinosaurs fit perfectly their description of the transformation of the serpent.

That textual, ancient evidence alone is not conclusive, but it is worth something. The widespread tales of reptilian beasts that stood on their hind legs and flew through the air also indicate that ancient thought had definitely not forgotten the creatures of our past. If all they knew was ancient mammals, one would think that they would be describing enormous carnivorous lions, or something like that. Instead, they vividly capture a snapshot of creatures that supposedly wandered our globe 60 million years ago, and no sooner.

I never caught that before.
I have a pet snake, and used to subscribe to Herpology magazine, where I read an article about legless lizards. Apparently, they exist. They're still around today and are somehow quite different from snakes. I forget the jist of the article, but I remember that not much is known about their evolution. Maybe they were beginning to lose their legs at around the time Genesis was written. Intriguing... I'll have to dig up that article.

I never even imagined the "flyers" being so big. (Anyone else love the first Land Before Time? ) Can you imagine the force its flapping wings would have generated as it took off from the ground?

My favorite is the stegosaurus. There's something to be said about an animal that could kill a gargantuan predator, which gives kids nightmares 60 million years later, with its butt.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

I never caught that before.
I have a pet snake, and used to subscribe to Herpology magazine, where I read an article about legless lizards. Apparently, they exist. They're still around today and are somehow quite different from snakes. I forget the jist of the article, but I remember that not much is known about their evolution. Maybe they were beginning to lose their legs at around the time Genesis was written. Intriguing... I'll have to dig up that article.

Well, that's one theory . I'd be interested to learn what you find.

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

I never even imagined the "flyers" being so big. Can you imagine the force its flapping wings would have generated as it took off from the ground?

It would blast a person to the ground. Hence my theory that perhaps the creature mainly lived on cliffs, perhaps by the sea.

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

(Anyone else love the first Land Before Time? )

It was good. I liked it very much when I saw it first when I was ten or eleven, though unfortunately it was rented, so I didn't see it again until probably two years ago. I still like it, though not with the passion of the past . The follow on movies are definitely not the same quality, though my younger sister, who is sixteen, loves them all .

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

My favorite is the stegosaurus. There's something to be said about an animal that could kill a gargantuan predator, which gives kids nightmares 60 million years later, with its butt.

[Bombadillo]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Well, that's one theory . I'd be interested to learn what you find.

Cool. Here's a short and simple description of legless lizards, and also a bunch of pictures. The internet doesn't seem to offer a professional article on them except on any very specific type, but in short, they have remnants of pelvic bones (sometimes even noticable to the eye), whereas only the most primitive snakes have any signs of them at all; they have a small hinged lower jaw, like humans, whereas snakes' are detachable and sizably comparable to their upper jaw; they've got solid teeth, external eyelids and ears; and compared to snakes, their internal organs are not contained very space-efficiently within their narrow bodies.

BTW, I wasn't disagreeing with you. You just reminded me of the article.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

It would blast a person to the ground. Hence my theory that perhaps the creature mainly lived on cliffs, perhaps by the sea.

It was good. I liked it very much when I saw it first when I was ten or eleven, though unfortunately it was rented, so I didn't see it again until probably two years ago. I still like it, though not with the passion of the past . The follow on movies are definitely not the same quality, though my younger sister, who is sixteen, loves them all .

Hahaha! My older brother used to want to watch it daily, and so I'd watch it with him until Sharptooth came and I'd invariably say I needed to go to the bathroom, and run away from the room in fear.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

Hahaha! My older brother used to want to watch it daily, and so I'd watch it with him until Sharptooth came and I'd invariably say I needed to go to the bathroom, and run away from the room in fear.

Yeah, my sister did that too . When she watched the first "Land Before Time", at about six, she was so scared that she hid from the T-Rex behind the sofa. That experienced had her nervous about "Land Before Time" into her teens, much though I tried to change her opinion. Then she watched it a year or two ago, and was thrilled with them all . She's rediscovered it, and "Not Before Time."

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

Cool. Here's a short and simple description of legless lizards, and also a bunch of pictures. The internet doesn't seem to offer a professional article on them except on any very specific type, but in short, they have remnants of pelvic bones (sometimes even noticable to the eye),

That's fascinating! My Dad has a theory going that current reptiles in the past actually were dinosaurs. The theory is about long ages. In Genesis, it talks about people having lived hundreds of years. This stops very closely after the flood, an event which would have caused massive changes in the atmosphere and climate of the world.

If humans lived long ages, other animals probably did too. One difference between reptiles and mammals is that reptiles never stop growing, throughout their lives. If a reptile can live hundreds of years, it would grow incredibly large, and probably would have a highly different physical appearance than it did when it was younger.

So that some snakes have bones that in the past would have been arms fits in hand and glove with that theory. (Goes off and tells Dad) Yep, he finds it interesting .

[littleadanel]

[QUOTE=Lief Erikson]It is an impressive . . . coincidence? . . . that our "mythological" dragons so closely resemble in size, proportions and other qualities, the creatures from our ancient past. QUOTE]

I don't think that can be a mere coincidence either... So many myths from all over the world, describing basically the same creature, that must be an ancient memory of humanity.

And I can't help it, my country's folk stories keep going on in my mind with dragons, of course. Many-headed dragons (3, 7...) How long ago I last read them. I might go & look for my once-favourite stories...

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by littleadanel

I don't think that can be a mere coincidence either... So many myths from all over the world, describing basically the same creature, that must be an ancient memory of humanity.

And I can't help it, my country's folk stories keep going on in my mind with dragons, of course. Many-headed dragons (3, 7...) How long ago I last read them. I might go & look for my once-favourite stories...

I was just comparing the sixty feet wingspan to my house . . . it's almost as long as my house! A creature of that size could easily just snatch an adult human off the ground and make off with him/her. Considering the size difference, we would probably be a natural food source, if humans and dinosaurs did ever coexist, as I think we did. Alas, obviously right now there isn't enough evidence to confront modern scientific thought, but even they readily admit that they don't know for sure what happened to the dinosaurs. They have theories, like evolution to birds, and astroid collision, but none of those has proven anything conclusive.

[rohirrim TR]

this was an interesting story (i thought) i have always been fascinated with nessie and sea monsters and dinosaurs being alive would be awesome (just so long jurassic park doesn't come true

[rohirrim TR]

this one is kind of cool too

[Lotesse]

Cool links; thanx man! It definitely would be something else, if a real live dinosaur still actually roams this planet. If Nessie exists... hmmmm.