08-15-2002, 10:49 PM | #1 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
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Eol
Okay, I don't think this has been done before, I searched for it, but forgive me if I'm wrong. . .
A while ago I was discussing Eol's role in the Silmarillion with a friend. I guess this question is a bit like the 'Feanor a villain?' thread...I said that I thought Eol was basically horrible and villainous. My friend disagreed. So. Discuss.
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08-15-2002, 11:34 PM | #2 |
Elf Lord
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I think Eol was an angry bitter elf by the time he entered the story. It is unclear to me if this was how he always was or if he became this way.
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08-15-2002, 11:43 PM | #3 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
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I think he was bitter mainly because of the arrival of the Noldor, and Morgoth. But I'm not entirely sure. Anyway, perhaps that could be one reason for his actions, but I don't think said actions were justified by any possible events or whatever else might make him bitter and angry.
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
08-15-2002, 11:50 PM | #4 |
the Shrike
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I'll have to re-read that section again, but the sense I got was that he was angry, and resentful, rather than villainous.
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08-16-2002, 12:00 AM | #5 |
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Actually, I need to read it again too...*heh* but. . .well, I say villainous, because I found his actions to be quite unforgivable in my book. He was angry resentful, true, but aren't most villainous types?
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
08-16-2002, 03:11 AM | #6 |
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They were BOTH ( Feanor and Eol) @#$%^&*.
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08-16-2002, 04:32 AM | #7 | |
the Shrike
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Quote:
I think, however, that Feanor is slightly more deserving of the title, @#$%^&*, than Eol.
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08-16-2002, 06:07 AM | #9 | ||
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Quote:
The Sil says about Eol: Quote:
It wasn't Eol's smartest move to take a Noldo as wife though, especially not someone like Aredhel, who wasn't likely to be content with his command; to never see the light of the day and not be together with the sons of Feanor, or any of her kin. Aredhel must have felt like living in a cage. No wonder she left.
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08-16-2002, 09:55 AM | #10 |
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Artanis posted:
"I think Eol became ever the more angry and bitter because his own son Maeglin turned towards the Noldor and fled to Gondolin. When Eol tried to kill Maeglin in Gondolin, it was all due to his bitter pride." I have to agree. Dark Elf was an apt description of Eol, not just his looks, but his character. The need to lay blame for the return of Morgoth is telling. However, I have to give him a little credit for his skill, and his willingness to befriend the Dwarves.
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08-16-2002, 11:20 AM | #11 |
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Thanks, Mirahzi...I didn't know you were here
I would agree that Eol gets credit for his skill, but despite that I think his character is just a bitter, snarky person already--his resentment of the Noldor and blaming them for Morgoth's presence, but at the same time he goes and marries one of them. And not, as Artanis said, the best choice, either, considering what Aredhel was like. Not the type to be caged. His son's betrayal of him, I think, was no excuse for trying to murder him. Especially since Aredhel died instead.
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
08-16-2002, 10:45 PM | #12 |
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he was a...er...brat.
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08-16-2002, 10:54 PM | #13 | |
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08-17-2002, 12:12 AM | #14 |
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hmm...he did not let his wife and son go abroad,he was rude to Turgon,and 100 other bad things.
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I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris |
08-17-2002, 12:39 AM | #15 | ||
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Quote:
Actually, he did let Aredhel wander about, so long as she didn't try and find the Noldor, his enemies. Quote:
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08-17-2002, 12:43 AM | #16 |
Elf Lord
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hehe."brat"is a subsitute for another word.
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I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris |
08-17-2002, 12:44 AM | #17 |
Elf Lord
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Eol was a dark elf. Moriquendi. I don't however think he was one of the Avari. He did very well as a loner until he got married.
And that should be a lesson to all of you. While he might have been prideful, arrogant and wilful, the only markedly evil act he did was to try to murder his son, Maeglin, and instead killed his wife. Up until that point, he was willing to "divorce" as long as he got "custody". If you people remeber your "history" you might realize that it would have been better if he had. Gondolin would not have been betrayed from within. Perhaps Eol knew his son better than anyone else. Turgon himself also must take some of the blame for what happened. When he put Eol to death, he basically sealed the doom of Gondolin. I don't put Eol even in the same class as Feanor. Feanor acted with forethought, and knowledge of his actions. Eol acted from passion. He's a dark, brooding figure yes, but not quite up to villain status. Trust me, I know villains when I see them. Maeglin now, he was a villain.
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08-17-2002, 02:25 AM | #18 | |
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Ok, let's try and figue this out.
Eol was a Telerin Elf of the following of Elwe. He resided in Doriath, but when Melian wove the Girdle of Enchantmant, Eol felt restricted and no longer wish to live there. Thingol granted him permission to live in Nan Elmoth. Here he befriended and learned great craft as a smith from the Dwarves. Aredhel who had a great love of travel, not uncomman in many of the Noldor, met and married him. Aredhel was not prisoner to Eol and was free to go throughout Nan Elmoth, but Eol kept her from her kindred that he held resposible for the Kinslaying at Aqualonde, especially Feanor and his sons that she had great friendship with. Meaglin loved his father, but felt that he always deprived his mother of her kin. When Aredhel became restless and left with Meaglin for Gondolin, Eol was exasperated with her and followed. When he got there, he did not accept Turgon's offer of hospitality and friendship, and claimed he had come for his wife and son and would leave, but if Aredhel chose not to, then he would leave with his son. Of course, Aredhel and Meaglin had no choice in this matter. Turgon said they must stay, eventhough he had allowed Aredhel to leave before. He gave Eol the choice to "abide here, or die here, and so for your son" Eol at that point was stirred to wrath. I will quote from memory cause the book isn't handy. It was something like this: Quote:
Was Eol a villion? No. Was Eol bitter? Yes. Was Eol evil? Yes. Was Eol always that way? I don't think so. Plus considering the feelings that the dwarves had for the Noldor, that was probably an influence aswell. Also, it never seemed as though Meaglin was a real bad guy until he realized he could not have Idril, and her hand going to a human was more than he could bear. WHEW! |
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08-17-2002, 02:35 AM | #19 | |
Elf Lord
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I'm amazed that you proclaim Eöl evil so easily, but deny that Fëanáro was corrupt. Of course, I'm also amazed at my knack for finding diacritics too.
Quote:
Although I think the final decision of Tolkien was that Eöl was a Sinda of the kin of Elu, it's interesting to note that in the essay Quendi and Eldar (I think that's where it is), Eöl was an Avar, but what's more of the Tatyar, those Elves from whom came the Ñoldor. I guess it's not too remarkable, as the Tatyarin Avari rather resented the Exiled Ñoldor, "whom they accused of arrogance". I wonder how Eöl and Thingol were related. It never says, like CÃ*rdan.
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08-17-2002, 02:39 AM | #20 |
Elf Lord
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Nah Eol wasn't evil. Just dark.
Oh youse is talkin to da goldielocks.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |