Rosie's job

sun-star · 03-05-2002, 05:30 PM

I was reading a movie companion guide to LOTR (don't ask me why) and it said that Sam is in love with Rosie, a barmaid at the Green Dragon Inn. I'm prepared to be corrected, but I really don't remember this from the books and it seems pretty unlikely. What do the books say?

Banazir · 03-05-2002, 05:48 PM

In the books she was most definitely NOT a barmaid. Or at least, her occupation is not mentioned.
It's just another one of those weird movie changes, to make it more appealing to the modern audience.

markedel · 03-05-2002, 05:50 PM

Yeah Rosie's no barmaid. Not that it's entirely implausible (Sam being a gardner) but as Farmer Cotton is a fairly prosperous farmer, it's rather unlikely.

Strange-Looking Lurker · 03-05-2002, 06:06 PM

*gags*

Wayfarer · 03-05-2002, 09:08 PM

I doubt there were barmaids at all in the shire.

markedel · 03-05-2002, 09:14 PM

Why not?

Starr Polish · 03-05-2002, 09:25 PM

Well, why not? Her job's never mentioned, but it makes sense to me.

I also heard that in the movie book or the calendar it says Uruk-Hai come from maggots..I can see where they screwed up here, the orcs often call themselves maggots and there's a reference of them being maggots somewhere.

Wayfarer · 03-05-2002, 09:35 PM

Rosie wouldn't have nescessarily had a 'job'. Hobbits tended to work in a family business sort of way... sam was a gardener... sandyman was a miller... lotho grew pipeweed... etc. I'll bet anything that rosie cotten just helped her dad and brothers around the farm. Like farmer maggot's daughters.

As for there not being barmaids in middle earth... It's just a preconception of mine. If there were, I think they might be mentioned somewhere. They're not. And the inns/eateries that we get to see close up seem to be operated by a fairly small crew.

Starr Polish · 03-05-2002, 09:37 PM

I think there may be barmaids in ME. Why not? Simply because they aren't mentioned doesn't mean they aren't there.

To each there own.

Nibs · 03-05-2002, 09:45 PM

Or their own, even...

I really don't know. That's my own. Not your own. Mine.

Wayfarer · 03-05-2002, 10:00 PM

Ok, ok. I give. The real reason I don't like the idea of barmaids is that I've been exposed to too many cheesy fantasies in which an 'inn' is equal parts eatery, tavern, hotel, and brothel and barmaids are called 'wenches' who are later bedded by the heroes.

I just can't see that happening in the shire.

I'm kidding, byt he way. ]: )

mirrille · 03-06-2002, 01:12 AM

Exactly. Whoever wrote that isn't very well versed in standard fantasy (or even real world rural) archetypes.
Being a barmaid is most definitely not a respectable occupation for a farmer's daughter, or any other young woman, for that matter. You'd be a young female in constant contact with men who are engaged in a steady consumption of alcohol, not to mention that your peak work hours would be at a time when "decent" people were in bed (sleeping. not the other thing.

) Decent parents like Farmer Cotton would rather have their daughters starve than let them work in a place like that.

Play Girl · 03-06-2002, 02:08 PM

Well in the books Rosie isn't even mentioned till book six when Sam thinks about where he'd rather be. Sort of an after thought by Tolkien I always thought.
Play Girl
xxx

rainbow · 03-06-2002, 03:22 PM

being a barmaid can't b that bad, sure u might get a reputation but it could b fun! and i can c why all hobbits r good there must b a rebel out there somewhere

Nameless · 03-06-2002, 07:34 PM

Let's be glad that they have only made her into a barmaid. It could be a lot worse. Rosie could have been portrayed as a warrior princess hobbit!!

Imagine this: Rosie joins Frodo, Sam, Pippin and Merry on their trip to Rivendell. She helps Frodo fight off the Nazgul and then joins Arwen and together they race with Frodo past the Nazgul and into Rivendell *shudder*. And when Arwen says 'If you want him, come and claim him' Rosie could have said 'But you will have to get through me first' *shuddering uncontrolably*

Yup, they could have turned Rosie into worse things than a barmaid!

Ñólendil · 03-06-2002, 08:29 PM

Quote:

As for there not being barmaids in middle earth... It's just a preconception of mine. If there were, I think they might be mentioned somewhere. They're not.

Except in our history (and today in many places, such as this thread), mud for brains.

I'm moving this to the Movies forum.

Vanimdil · 03-07-2002, 12:38 AM

I coincide with Renille and Wayfarer that Rosie could NOT have been a barmaid. As Renille said, it was not a respectable occupation and I see Rosie as a very wholesome girl-hobbit. I agree with Wayfarer that she was not likely to have a "job" as such, but that she would have helped out on the farm. I picture her churning butter, tidying up the house, feeding chickens and tending her own "bit" of a garden until Sam comes home.

That's the type of girl Sam would have been attracted to, rather than the barmaid type.

Strange-Looking Lurker · 03-07-2002, 08:39 AM

Exactly!

bropous · 03-07-2002, 11:12 AM

While Rosie being a barmaid is simply a construction of the film, I in no way see the position of barmaid as anything less than honorable. Hobbits love their ale, and to see a fine Hobbit lass at the Green Dragon pulling a pint or two would not make a (an?) Hobbit's toe hair fall out. I agree that Rosie was probably involved in the family farm and not working at the Green Dragon.

However, it reminds me of a little limerick I heard a long time ago....

"On the chest of a barmaid from Swale
Was printed the prices of ale
Whilst on her behind,
For sake of the blind,
Was exactly the same, but in Braille!"

jerseydevil · 03-07-2002, 02:45 PM

They do show Rosie as a barmaid in the tavern. She's cleaning a mug in the doorway as Frodo and Sam leave and stagger back home. So the book is right that Jackson portrayed her as a barmaid. I don't know how many caught her five seconds of screen time at the Green Dragon - when she says goodnight to Sam and Frodo. I think she only had 10 seconds at most of screen time as it is.

I really do think Jackson should have given her a bigger role. How are we supposed to remember her by the end of RotK? If everyone can use that excuse about Aragorn and Arwen - then why not Rosie and Sam. She could have replaced Merry or Pippin and joined the Fellowship - then we would have had a female on the journey. Sam might have FINALLY have gotten the nerve to talk to her between Hobbiton and Mordor.

In the books she was not a barmaid though.

03-05-2002, 05:30 PM	#1
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	Rosie's job I was reading a movie companion guide to LOTR (don't ask me why) and it said that Sam is in love with Rosie, a barmaid at the Green Dragon Inn. I'm prepared to be corrected, but I really don't remember this from the books and it seems pretty unlikely. What do the books say?

03-05-2002, 05:48 PM	#2
Banazir Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 40	Re: Rosie's job In the books she was most definitely NOT a barmaid. Or at least, her occupation is not mentioned. It's just another one of those weird movie changes, to make it more appealing to the modern audience. __________________ "...I love him, whether or no".

03-05-2002, 05:50 PM	#3
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Yeah Rosie's no barmaid. Not that it's entirely implausible (Sam being a gardner) but as Farmer Cotton is a fairly prosperous farmer, it's rather unlikely. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

03-05-2002, 06:06 PM	#4
Strange-Looking Lurker Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: OK, USA Posts: 213	gags __________________ <hr>Check out my site: www.christianjugglers.org

03-05-2002, 09:08 PM	#5
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	I doubt there were barmaids at all in the shire. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

03-05-2002, 09:14 PM	#6
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Why not? __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

03-05-2002, 09:25 PM	#7
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Well, why not? Her job's never mentioned, but it makes sense to me. I also heard that in the movie book or the calendar it says Uruk-Hai come from maggots..I can see where they screwed up here, the orcs often call themselves maggots and there's a reference of them being maggots somewhere. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

03-05-2002, 09:35 PM	#8
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Rosie wouldn't have nescessarily had a 'job'. Hobbits tended to work in a family business sort of way... sam was a gardener... sandyman was a miller... lotho grew pipeweed... etc. I'll bet anything that rosie cotten just helped her dad and brothers around the farm. Like farmer maggot's daughters. As for there not being barmaids in middle earth... It's just a preconception of mine. If there were, I think they might be mentioned somewhere. They're not. And the inns/eateries that we get to see close up seem to be operated by a fairly small crew. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

03-05-2002, 09:37 PM	#9
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	I think there may be barmaids in ME. Why not? Simply because they aren't mentioned doesn't mean they aren't there. To each there own. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

03-05-2002, 09:45 PM	#10
Nibs Head Hollara Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 751	Or their own, even... I really don't know. That's my own. Not your own. Mine. __________________ "People used to ring up and say 'Don't quit your day job' or 'sell your synth', but the joke's on them: we were fired and the synth is broken!" -John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants Ever heard of Mormons? I'm one. Click here to know more about us.

03-05-2002, 10:00 PM	#11
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Ok, ok. I give. The real reason I don't like the idea of barmaids is that I've been exposed to too many cheesy fantasies in which an 'inn' is equal parts eatery, tavern, hotel, and brothel and barmaids are called 'wenches' who are later bedded by the heroes. I just can't see that happening in the shire. I'm kidding, byt he way. ]: ) __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

03-06-2002, 01:12 AM	#12
mirrille Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 479	Exactly. Whoever wrote that isn't very well versed in standard fantasy (or even real world rural) archetypes. Being a barmaid is most definitely not a respectable occupation for a farmer's daughter, or any other young woman, for that matter. You'd be a young female in constant contact with men who are engaged in a steady consumption of alcohol, not to mention that your peak work hours would be at a time when "decent" people were in bed (sleeping. not the other thing. ) Decent parents like Farmer Cotton would rather have their daughters starve than let them work in a place like that.

03-06-2002, 02:08 PM	#13
Play Girl Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: If I told you I would have to kill you Posts: 159	Well in the books Rosie isn't even mentioned till book six when Sam thinks about where he'd rather be. Sort of an after thought by Tolkien I always thought. Play Girl xxx __________________ "Off the Record On the Q-T And very HUSH HUSH" Frodo lives!

03-06-2002, 03:22 PM	#14
rainbow Enting Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: in my head Posts: 61	being a barmaid can't b that bad, sure u might get a reputation but it could b fun! and i can c why all hobbits r good there must b a rebel out there somewhere __________________ smile & be happy (frodo lives) BANANERISM RULES!!!!! the spotty dog chases its tail till all its spots fall off!

03-06-2002, 07:34 PM	#15
Nameless Enting Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 68	Let's be glad that they have only made her into a barmaid. It could be a lot worse. Rosie could have been portrayed as a warrior princess hobbit!! Imagine this: Rosie joins Frodo, Sam, Pippin and Merry on their trip to Rivendell. She helps Frodo fight off the Nazgul and then joins Arwen and together they race with Frodo past the Nazgul and into Rivendell shudder. And when Arwen says 'If you want him, come and claim him' Rosie could have said 'But you will have to get through me first' shuddering uncontrolably Yup, they could have turned Rosie into worse things than a barmaid! __________________ Nameless and Faceless, but not Voiceless - - - Do you hear me?

03-07-2002, 12:38 AM	#17
Vanimdil Enting Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 51	I coincide with Renille and Wayfarer that Rosie could NOT have been a barmaid. As Renille said, it was not a respectable occupation and I see Rosie as a very wholesome girl-hobbit. I agree with Wayfarer that she was not likely to have a "job" as such, but that she would have helped out on the farm. I picture her churning butter, tidying up the house, feeding chickens and tending her own "bit" of a garden until Sam comes home. That's the type of girl Sam would have been attracted to, rather than the barmaid type.

03-07-2002, 08:39 AM	#18
Strange-Looking Lurker Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: OK, USA Posts: 213	Exactly! __________________ <hr>Check out my site: www.christianjugglers.org

03-07-2002, 11:12 AM	#19
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	While Rosie being a barmaid is simply a construction of the film, I in no way see the position of barmaid as anything less than honorable. Hobbits love their ale, and to see a fine Hobbit lass at the Green Dragon pulling a pint or two would not make a (an?) Hobbit's toe hair fall out. I agree that Rosie was probably involved in the family farm and not working at the Green Dragon. However, it reminds me of a little limerick I heard a long time ago.... "On the chest of a barmaid from Swale Was printed the prices of ale Whilst on her behind, For sake of the blind, Was exactly the same, but in Braille!" __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

03-07-2002, 02:45 PM	#20
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	They do show Rosie as a barmaid in the tavern. She's cleaning a mug in the doorway as Frodo and Sam leave and stagger back home. So the book is right that Jackson portrayed her as a barmaid. I don't know how many caught her five seconds of screen time at the Green Dragon - when she says goodnight to Sam and Frodo. I think she only had 10 seconds at most of screen time as it is. I really do think Jackson should have given her a bigger role. How are we supposed to remember her by the end of RotK? If everyone can use that excuse about Aragorn and Arwen - then why not Rosie and Sam. She could have replaced Merry or Pippin and joined the Fellowship - then we would have had a female on the journey. Sam might have FINALLY have gotten the nerve to talk to her between Hobbiton and Mordor. In the books she was not a barmaid though. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide