08-15-2004, 11:40 PM | #1 | |
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Kurt Vonnegut on President Bush
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I've got Slaughterhouse Five and need to read it; I expect I'll enjoy it. I have numerous problems with the Bush administration but I disagree with him involving America to be anything like Nazi Germany, we'd have to do the following: 1) Pick a scapegoat group (probably gays) and start throwing them into ovens. 2) Attack a lot more countries than Iraq, many of which had nothing to do with 9/11, but also all of the ones that did to further that as our excuse. 3) Congress gives Bush absoulte power, or he takes it by some other means. 4) The FBI becomes a secret police force. Ashcroft REALLY goes to town. EDIT: Whoops made a mistake... he said that the US was "almost as feared and hated all over the world as the Nazis were." He didn't say that they were following the exact same action path as nazi germany. Last edited by Ragnarok : 08-15-2004 at 11:43 PM. |
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08-16-2004, 05:28 AM | #2 | ||
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One should think that other teams may have appear more problematic "a priori" like Turkey (the traditional enemy of the greeks) and Saud Arabia which had no women in its team
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08-16-2004, 10:46 AM | #3 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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kurt vonnegut likes to go overboard in his examples (read cat's cradle, one of his best)... it's what makes his writings stick with people... he also had some horrific war experiences, which are certain to add vehemence to his views concerning the subject
on world views and newspaper reports, as i've said before, perception is reality... and the 'perception' people of the world have of us in america is our responsibility alone to change
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08-16-2004, 07:34 PM | #4 |
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Couple of intersting thoughts though;
It's actually occurred to me a few times to wonder what Mark Twain would have thought of people nowadays. If you were to decide on one author ever to label the best/most important American writer ever, Twain would have to be near the top of the list. Definitely one of the conders for best misanthropic authors ever. In Kurt's writing, even at it's absolute harshest, had a certain warmth, or desire to believe in some sort of nobility, and his most common theme was probably a desire for common decensy. He even admitted as much, in one of his books, and for the life of me, I can't remember the quote or the book it was, which is upsetting as it was great. |
08-16-2004, 11:35 PM | #5 |
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I think it's "God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater". Actually, now that I think of it, it's pretty much the general, or at least an underlying, theme of all of his books. It's most blatant in "Mr. Rosewater".
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A citizen runs to the fire department yelling that he's spotted a roaring blaze from his car. "WHERE IS IT?" the fire department asks, pen ready. "It rises like some brooding , glaring trail of cosmic fury from- " "WHERE? WHERE?" "Oh. Well, it blazes up from a crimson-sheathed visage brooding darkly above the haunted towers of impotent indignity which, like melons hovering unhappily over lifetimes of empty meaning which-" "THE ADDRESS!" "Oh. Oh, I didn't notice. But look for a brooding, glaring trail of cosmic fury rising from a crimson-sheathed visage-" They lead him back to his car, and send him on. -- Philip K. Dick "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -- Diderot |
08-19-2004, 11:15 PM | #6 |
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do you mean "god bless you, dr. kevorkian" or are we talking about two different books? i read dr. kevorkian last week, and while it was amusing, i definetly did not agree with most of his views. but, *shrugs* to each their own.
but did he write another book called god bless you mr. rosewater? just curious...
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08-20-2004, 07:18 AM | #7 |
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Yeah, there are two books. "Rosewater" is fiction and one of his best, IMO.
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A citizen runs to the fire department yelling that he's spotted a roaring blaze from his car. "WHERE IS IT?" the fire department asks, pen ready. "It rises like some brooding , glaring trail of cosmic fury from- " "WHERE? WHERE?" "Oh. Well, it blazes up from a crimson-sheathed visage brooding darkly above the haunted towers of impotent indignity which, like melons hovering unhappily over lifetimes of empty meaning which-" "THE ADDRESS!" "Oh. Oh, I didn't notice. But look for a brooding, glaring trail of cosmic fury rising from a crimson-sheathed visage-" They lead him back to his car, and send him on. -- Philip K. Dick "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -- Diderot |
08-20-2004, 12:39 PM | #8 | ||||
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Hitler was very much against Christianity, since Christianity went against his beliefs. Christianity was the product of a non-Aryan, and thus inferior race and its belief in peace and love for man went against his own rather bellicose and twisted beliefs and polity. He was, if he was to be given a religion, a pagan, though his German Faith Movement never really gained much ground. Hitler once stated that, eventually, he wanted to eradicate Germany of Christianity. He did, when he needed to, support the Church, in a very superficial sense, but his support for the Church was only a case of Hitler's opportunism-he supported the church when he saw fit, just like he supported Socialism when he saw fit-though both were anathema to Hitler. To call Hitler a "Christian" is both a misnomer and a fallacy. Just because he was a anti-Semite does not mean he was a Christian.
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08-20-2004, 12:42 PM | #9 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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i wish more people could be this realistic
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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08-20-2004, 12:51 PM | #10 |
Elf Lord
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I suppose a lot of this revolves around what you understand by the term "problematic".
You could argue that America is the ultimate problem state because it is far more powerful than any other. On the other, I would far rather have America in that powerful position than, say, China or even Britain (we were in that position, and chose to royally shaft the world in ways that make Halliburton look like rank amateurs). |
08-20-2004, 01:20 PM | #11 | ||
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08-20-2004, 01:32 PM | #12 |
Elf Lord
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Indeed. Though my point was that maybe we shouldn't despair; maybe our global empires are getting a bit more benign as the years roll by!
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08-20-2004, 05:48 PM | #13 | |
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Israel is democratic, as much as any other country, In my opinion. |
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08-21-2004, 10:53 AM | #14 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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the essence for me is that all countries could improve their foreign policies... put aside questions like who is worse than who, and concentrate on ones like 'how can i make my country better?'
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08-21-2004, 01:16 PM | #15 | |
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The really religious Jews, thougth, get some priviledges - they don't pay taxes. and don't work, and get funding from government, 'because they are learning Bible'. If I could, I'd change it, but still, it's not like we're undemocratic - it's a rule, and can be changed if most of the parliament is against it. |
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