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02-26-2009, 05:13 AM | #1 |
Salt Miner
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Accuracy of Tolkien’s physical descriptions of characters
I have one last question before I must return to the salt-mines of Núrnen for the foreseeable future. It may strike some of you as a little odd or morbid.
Attalus, does Tolkien’s description of Théoden’s death – the labored breathing, the quiet speech, restricted motion, etc. – match clinical experience of people who have suffered severe chest trauma? After all, first his horse fell on him, and then, if I’ve read “Pelennor Field” correctly, rolled over him. Assuming that Snowmane is good-sized animal, he might weight anywhere from 1000 or 1200 pounds to as much as 2000 pounds. Is it reasonable that Théoden survived that long after that kind of trauma, or is this just literature? When you read Lord of the Rings, do the physical descriptions of the reactions or experiences of the characters sound like what you have seen? BTW, the British Medical Journal published a report describing the mental condition of Gollum based upon Tolkien’s descriptions. (Available for free with registration.) The commentaries and letters are good, too, particularly the one that claims (tongue-in-cheek, before anyone gets antsy!) the BMJ breached patient confidentiality by publishing Gollum’s name and picture. |
02-26-2009, 07:02 AM | #2 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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I wonder had "Snowmane in his agony rolled away from [Theoden] again" before or after the Fell Beast settled upon the body of the horse? In the latter case you have to add the weight of the Fell Beast+ the WK in armor.
Curious this article in BMJ. Thank you for sharing, Alcuin! But I have noticed it is movieverse. They mention only loincloth, but Gollum did have clothes in the book. Also he ate not only fish, but meat as well: orcs, all manner of young creatures in Mirkwood. Nothing is said about his aversion to all things Elvish etc. Last edited by Gordis : 02-26-2009 at 07:18 AM. |
02-26-2009, 01:44 PM | #3 |
Elf Lord
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IIRC, Drew Bledsoe once played a half (more or less) of a football game with busted ribs and a punctured lung. I think a tough guy like Theoden could squeeze out a few sentences after being rolled over by a horse. But I'll gladly defer to our resident physician.
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02-26-2009, 02:46 PM | #4 | ||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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02-26-2009, 03:46 PM | #5 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Interesting topic! We'll have to get Inked over here, too.
JRRT did active duty in WWI, right? So I imagine he'd be familiar with various wounds and how people reacted to them. Not as a trained medical person, but just plain old experience.
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02-26-2009, 03:56 PM | #6 |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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Oh I think JRRT saw more than just sounds and reactions. He was in the trenches of the Western Front.. ..pure carnage. I imagine he saw ruined and dead bodies, mates die from hunger, cold, disease, bullet wounds, explosions, the list could be disturbingly long.
That war must have had some profound effects on him which I think come to life in the comradeship of Frodo and Sam particularly.
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02-26-2009, 06:50 PM | #7 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I said wounds, not sounds, and I didn't mean reactions like emotional reactions. I meant that he probably SAW a person crushed by something heavy, and saw how they physically reacted, and translated this to Theoden being crushed by his horse.
Yes, I'm sure Frodo and Sam's relationship was profoundly affected by his experience in war.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-28-2009, 01:29 PM | #8 | |
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02-28-2009, 01:32 PM | #9 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Well, we know that Tolkien was very concerned with authenticity. Did anyone here know that he actually made the big red record book that the fellowship finds in Moria?
So, while he may have been off a bit here and there, I trust JRRT never wrote anything he didn't know about himself. Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli's run is pretty incredible physically, but it was meant to be in the books as well.
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02-28-2009, 02:16 PM | #10 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Tolkien at least made an illustration of the last page of the book of Mazarbul to be included in his work. I do believe reading in Letters that it eventually was booted for other illustrations, but it does exists. A quick image search will quickly bring up a few copies.
EDIT: Ah, I see you wrote 'did anyone know that' instead of 'does anyone know if'. I misread, sorry.
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02-28-2009, 04:37 PM | #11 | |
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