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04-13-2003, 06:18 PM | #1 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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The Silmarillion: Ch. 6: Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor
A short resume:
All three kindreds of Elves are now gathered in Valinor and thriving. Fëanor was born and after his birth his mother M*riel surrendered her body and went to Mandos’ halls. Finwë remarried with Indis who gave birth to Fingolfin and Finarfin. When all three were about grown, Manwë decided to turn Melkor loose. After his release Melkor turned his hatred to the Eldar since he held them responsible for his own downfall by the hands of the Valar. So he tricked them in believing him as a friend and counsellor. Of the three kindreds especially the Noldor learned much from him. Incomplete list of other reads on this subject: Book of Lost Tales I , The Coming of the Elves and the Making of Kôr The Shaping of Middle-earth, The earliest ‘Silmarillion’, 4 The Shaping of Middle-earth, The earliest Annals of Valinor, Valian Years 2500 till 2950 Morgoth’s Ring, The Annals of Aman, Fourth Section, 1179 to 1410 Of Fëanor In this chapter we first come up on Fëanor, one of the most influential and vital characters in Elvish history. It’s an Elf who we readers either love or hate. But how did the Elves see him? He is seemingly remembered by them as foremost the maker of the Silmarils and only then as leader of the rebelling Noldor. Since the Silmarils and the unrest of the Noldor is discussed in the next chapter I won’t touch them yet here. Yet already in this chapter we learn he is both skilled and learned. Quote:
Of Finwë As far as my limited knowledge of Elves goes, they don’t remarry. However they don’t usually refuse to take up another body either like M*riel, Finwë’s wife did. Poor Finwë was in a sad situation. His wife refused to take up her body again after the birth of one son and Finwë wanted more children (why I do wonder, I suspect Fëanor was already more than a handful even as a child ). According to the Silmarillion one might blame his remarriage with Indis for the troubles it would cause later on. But it also states that if he hadn’t remarried, history would have been denied the sons he had with Indis and a much bleaker history it would have been: no Fingolfin, no Finrod Felagund (, ), no Gondolin, no Eärendil, ect… Personally I’m not so sure if Finwë’s to blame. His was a rather exceptional situation with M*riel. I wonder whether Finwë spoiled his son. He loved his son more than anything and Fëanor grew up to be a rather stubborn son. If he had been a Man I certainly would have made a connection between the last two sentences. But since Fëanor is an Elf, I hesitate. More so since Fëanor was already a rather ‘fiery’ person when he was born. *to be continued*
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04-13-2003, 06:22 PM | #2 | ||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Of Nerdanel
Nerdanel was Fëanor’s wife. He never asked anyone counsel or help, except her. Which is rather remarkable. She was perhaps the best match he could hope to make for she was also ‘firm of will’ as was he. She was capable of restraining him when he overheated. She also had to handle 7 little Fëanors. She most have had a darn strong mind to be able to do that. Quote:
Of Melkor Melkor still hadn’t lost his touch after three ages in prison . He managed to fool both Valar and Elves. Quite a feat, even though Ulmo and Tulkas didn’t buy much of his lies they did not stop him mainly because Manwë certainly fell for it. And Nienna even supported his plea for pardon! Of all Valar she would be the one I the least expected to do so. Quote:
If any of the Valar at least Nienna should remember Melkor’s evils the longest. Yet she is the one to plead his case. Did she pity Melkor for his incarceration? Did her pity overcome her reasoning here? Or did she not want to see that evil still lurked in Melkor? If so that the other Valar doubtlessly did the same. Manwë pardoned Melkor without looking deep into Melkor’s heart. You’d think that with someone who gave you so much trouble before, they’d be a little more careful to release him again. It’s seems to be a running theme that whenever the Valar try to do good (in this case to be merciful) it backfires on them. In any case Melkor must have been one sweet tongued son of a … female dog. After his release Melkor aimed his hatred chiefly at the Eldar whom he deemed the reason for his downfall and because they were fair and happy. Things he didn’t seem to be able to stand. A bit of a social case that Melkor, I think. Though I think that another reason may have been that he could get back at the Valar through the Elves. The Valar loved the Elves greatly, if Melkor could estrange the Elves from the Valar it would have been quite a blow to the latter. But that’s just some personal after-thought. There, I think I covered most things. It’s interesting picking a chapter apart but it takes a long time. Started at 21.30 and ended at 23.50. But I made it. Pfiew! I couldn’t really find many good discussion points to single out so I copied azalea’s method a little. So there. Start arguing! I’m off to bed.
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04-13-2003, 07:53 PM | #3 | |||
Elf Lord
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Very thorough, Eärniel.
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"For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." - Fëanor |
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04-14-2003, 12:49 PM | #4 |
Long lost mooter
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Good job, Earniel!
It's hard to respond to every point right now, but I'll do the first few: How did the Elves see Feanor? Interesting question. I tend to see the storyteller's POV as pretty unbiased, but as far as his story as told in The Silm, I would say he'd be seen in a negative way, because of the personal strife he brought to so many. But I understand that in the other works, he is perhaps shown in a less negative light. So generally speaking I would say they viewed him maybe not as "good" or "bad," but simply as Powerful, a description which would encompass both the positive and negative. The elves as far as I can see would view power as an admirable trait, yet with the possiblility of being fell, and thus view it with caution. At this point I tend to think that Feanor was destined to have personal problems, even if he hadn't had the broken family. I think he was born with such fire that he would eventually rebel no matter what, unless he was always given his way. But I suppose in the end it is a good thing that Finwe took another wife, because like you said, we would otherwise be without some very important elves, who end up balancing things out, as it were. I'll respond more later. |
04-14-2003, 02:59 PM | #5 | ||||
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quote:
Fëanor was the elf who knew most about the Valarin language of the Valar. Quote:
Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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04-14-2003, 03:24 PM | #6 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Maedhros, where is Osanwe Kenta?
Yes, I bought PoME recently and noticed the change in when M*riel's death took place - Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 04-14-2003 at 03:32 PM. |
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04-14-2003, 05:08 PM | #7 | ||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Quote:
Quote:
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04-14-2003, 05:11 PM | #8 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(Eärniel, see the last sentence in the first quote of my previous post - that's where it says he was "full-grown' when she died - a definite change from the Sil)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-14-2003, 05:38 PM | #9 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Yes, I know. I do read your posts, R*an. I was merely pointing out that I had used the Silmarillion as reference to make the opening post. Hence my saying that he grew up without his mother.
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04-14-2003, 05:47 PM | #10 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I just thought you might have fallen asleep before you got to that part....(I can be rather wordy....)
That seems like rather a big change - your mother dying when you're a baby, or dying when you're full-grown.... and 50 years is a long time to endure weariness, too - a little more understandable for M*riel to give up after being weary for 50 years, than to give up right after Fëanor's birth.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-14-2003, 06:51 PM | #11 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Quote:
The tip of the iceberg: new information about Middle-earth http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/79363
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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04-14-2003, 06:56 PM | #12 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Thanks, SGH The link doesn't seem to work now, but I"ll try again later...
What's Venyar Tengwar?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-14-2003, 07:04 PM | #13 | ||
The Tall
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From the Peoples of Middle earth: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Quote:
From Ósanwe-kenta Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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04-14-2003, 07:20 PM | #14 |
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
"In this chapter we first come up on Fëanor, one of the most influential and vital characters in Elvish history. It’s an Elf who we readers either love or hate. But how did the Elves see him?" It is hard to imagine how the other elves viewed him. I'm one of the readers that was not taken with Feanor. As Azalea said, I am jaded by the knowledge of the repercussions of his future deeds. I see him as willful, standoffish and hot-tempered. But I think many of the elves would have respected his knowledge and accepted his leadership. BTW, thank you Earniel, for presenting this chapter. Though I do not post much (I'm a bit shy in my lack of knowledge compared to the other posters), I visit here regularly and enjoy the discussions. I would have been disappointed if the project fell through.
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04-17-2003, 10:04 PM | #15 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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I don't let lack of knowledge stop me!
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
04-17-2003, 10:15 PM | #16 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Quote:
Where were you when I needed you mister.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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04-19-2003, 08:18 PM | #17 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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04-20-2003, 01:24 AM | #18 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-20-2003, 10:48 AM | #19 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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Re: The Silmarillion: Ch. 6: Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor
*Grin* Thanks, Rian. As for:
Quote:
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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04-20-2003, 01:03 PM | #20 | |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Finwë had some responsability too. From Morgoth's Ring: Of The Severance Of Marriage
Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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