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03-25-2003, 10:21 PM | #1 |
Long lost mooter
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The Silmarillion ch.5: Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie
This is really long, but there was a lot to cover. I have to say I enjoyed this chapter so much more the second time.
“Of Eldamar (Elvenhome) and the Princes of the Eldalie (Elven-folk)” is a chapter that introduces us to characters and places that have significant roles later in the mythology. Likewise, the situations that are detailed can be seen to have a bearing on later events. Of note in this chapter are the following: We meet Cirdan the Shipwright. Tol Eressea and Tuna are formed; Tirion and Alqualonde are built. Galathilion is planted, the first “branch” (so to speak) in a line of trees that originated from Telperion. The first flowers outside of Aman grow in Tol Eressea. We meet Feanor and the rest of that gang, the major players in many events that later unfold. It is here that we are introduced to Galadriel. And finally, we are told that all living things that dwelt in Arda “lived then in the land of Aman,” Melkor’s fell creatures excluded, of course. I’ll start with that last bit: I of course take that to mean that any creature found anywhere in Arda would also be found in Aman, not that there were no creatures anywhere else, as the structure of that sentence could indicate. That sentence also implies that there were other creatures there that didn’t make it – could this mean dinosaurs? Unicorns? Both, or neither? And I wonder how big was Aman, because you have to figure that it had at least a few of everything from bears to squirrels to oliphaunts and on and on. It had to be pretty big to house comfortably all of those, plus the Valar and the elves! Wow. Reading this chapter made me think about Tolkien’s reason for writing this, as a mythology. A mythology, as defined by Webster (I am paraphrasing) is a body of unverifiable stories that a people use to explain their history and to explain natural events or contemporary practices. It is interesting that the next definition of mythology is “an allegorical narrative.” We know that Tolkien hated allegory, but in creating this mythology, he seemed to include in the tales explanations for comtemporary things, as a good mythology does. This is evidenced in this chapter a couple of times, which I’ll open for discussion here. The first I’ve already mentioned: the fact that there are animals that we’ve heard of that no longer exist. He doesn’t tell what those are, but leaves it to the reader’s imagination. The second is Tol Eressea. It is told here how the island is “moved” by Ulmo to pick up the elves in the Bay of Balar. The island then “moves” again, when he brings them on the island over the sea to Aman, but part of the island was broken off and remained in the bay. The island is moved a final time when Ulmo goes to retrieve the host of Olwe, then plants the island in the Bay of Eldamar at Osse’s request. As I read this whole episode, it reminded me so much of the other myths I’ve read. I could see the moving of the island being an explanation for the changing of the landscape, perhaps a kind of land bridge arose in the bay, connecting the main shore with the island, and then the waters rose again and parted on the other side. (It doesn’t say how long the journey took, so we don’t have that as a reference here.) Then once again the waters on the other side parted, and then came back together, but the waters on the far side never parted fully, so the island stayed in the bay. The fact that the island never made it all the way there also is given as the explanation for “the sundering of their [the Teleri's] speech from that of the Vanyar and the Noldor.” I would have loved to see Ulmo blowing his shell. I wonder what it looked like, and sounded like. In this chapter we see further evidence that Thingol started out as a great guy. He comes out of the trance lookin’ good. Funny how it just coincidentally (or not?) happens that he comes out AFTER the group of elves left with Olwe. It reminded me of the discussion we had about whether or not it was part of Iluvatar’s plan that Melian should “intervene” by falling in love with Elwe. It also states here that “a high doom was before him.” We’ve talked (somewhere) about the word doom, and what it means in different situations. A “high doom.” Now that I’ve read the rest, that really makes sense. Here we find the foundation for the making of the Silmarils. The Noldor (who I started to call the earth lovers) are Aule’s buddies, so they learn all about making really cool stuff. Feanor is described for us as being the “mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers.” (Here again is that “noble blood” element – the king’s firstborn son is the mightiest of the elves. Rarely are ignoble characters ones that shape events.) (continued on next post) |
03-25-2003, 10:25 PM | #2 |
Long lost mooter
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We also get to learn about the sea lovers, the Teleri, who finally make it to Aman in swan-drawn boats (another fantastically beautiful image). Swans end up being their theme of sorts, which made me think of the connection to the swan boats in Lorien. Is Galadriel a Teleri?(I still get confused.) If not, is there a connection, or were they just copying? I have added Alqualonde as one of the places I’d most like to visit if I went back in time to that age. What a beautiful image the passage describing it conjures.
Then there are the “air lovers,” Manwe’s pals, the Vanyar. They decide to go live w/ the Valar, and are separated from the rest of the Eldar. Feanor and the gang become wanderers, which of course is a precursor to their big “wander.” But really, I see that thankfully they were not homebodies or else who would have come back and made ME what it became? I realize this is somewhat thrown together, but I wanted to go ahead and get it posted. Hopefully those of you who have read the HoME, etc., will add to what I’ve presented. I realize I didn’t put my post in the form of questions, but I hoped to group it so that everyone could give their thoughts on each point I brought up (or at least a couple!). Also, I tended to give merely my impressions of the chapter, rather than to bring up topics that would relate the chapter to the book as a whole (whys and what ifs). I hope people will bring up such topics, I simply coldn't think of any at this time (but maybe as the discussion develops I will). Please be kind in your criticism of my inferior knowledge when you post. I hope to learn a lot. |
03-25-2003, 10:32 PM | #3 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Well, I think you did a fine job on such short notice. I will post on the chapter later. I want to re-read it first.
I unstuck chapter 4 and then went to stick this one, and accidently unstuck it because I didn't realize that you had already stuck it. Anyway, it is stuck again azalea, thank you for doing this in a pinch, and making it possible for the project to continue.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
03-25-2003, 10:36 PM | #4 |
Long lost mooter
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You're welcome! I'm just interested on what everyone's going to say! I've said it before (well, maybe not in these words) -- this forum and the project in particular have taught me more about the Silm than I ever hoped to learn!
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03-25-2003, 10:37 PM | #5 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Oh yes Thank you! I like to help and do my part, but am of no use in this ! I'll reread too!
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03-26-2003, 02:27 PM | #6 |
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very good work azalea! i'm amazed with the professionality of the admin-mod team
i've never noticed the connection between the swan-ships of Alqualonde and those of Lorien. Yes, Galadriel was (partly) a Teleri: Earwen, her mom was Olwe's daughter. Though Galadriel liked to spend her time with Feanor's sons, i suppose that she had time enough to enjoy summers at Alqualonde however, i don't think the ships of Lorien were the same they use at Alqualonde: first, because the obvious differences between a river and the sea, and second because i don't see Galadriel as one who had learned all about shipbuilding when she was in Alqualonde, though, perhaps she could have inspired the idea of making Lorien ships as swans.
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03-26-2003, 02:38 PM | #7 | |
Long lost mooter
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Quote:
Thanks for the compliment, BTW! One thing I forgot to comment on before was when I mentioned that no flowers had grown outside of Aman before the Pelori was cleft. That is odd, could you imagine a world w/ no flowers? Technically it couldn't be true since there were plants in ME, and plants must flower in order to reproduce (even grass has flowers, just very small ones). Hmmm. |
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03-26-2003, 02:48 PM | #8 |
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yep, there were plants in ME, but after the destruction of the two great lamps they couldn't grow. remember that all the Earth was in darkness. the sky was peopled with stars all "day". that's why elves love stars.
Yavanna, then, put to sleep all her creatures so they don't die with the darkness. only in Beleriand there was some little growing of plants because the Valar had treaded that land in their war with Melkor, and so the have somehow lightened the land.
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03-26-2003, 02:49 PM | #9 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Another thing about the swan ships: IIRC, when the Noldor had asked the Teleri for thier ships, the Teleri refused saying something like these ships are to us as the Silmarils are to you, the likes of which we shall never make again. I would think that construction of swan ships could be done following that model though.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
03-26-2003, 02:56 PM | #10 | |
Long lost mooter
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Quote:
Good point about the ships, SGH. Just to clarify, I didn't mean in my first post about them that I thought they were the very ships, but I meant were they built by the same "people" (why I asked if Galadriel was a Teleri) or was it some other group 'copying" the Teleri's design. |
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03-26-2003, 03:08 PM | #11 |
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i believe that Galadriel was the only Teleri at Lorien. The rest of the people were Nandor or similar.
and talking about the eldar branches, i think that's an important theme of this chapter. as in the rest of Silm., here we see the elves sorted by their proximity to the Light of Valinor. why? were the elves conceived by Eru to live with the Valar? are the moriquendi naturally worse than the calaquendi because they didn't response to the summons?
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03-26-2003, 03:11 PM | #12 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Galadriel was a Noldorin princess, wasn't she?
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03-26-2003, 03:20 PM | #13 |
Long lost mooter
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The Silmarillion lists her mother as the daughter of Olwe of Alqualonde, so it is clear to me now that she would have gotten inspiration for her own boats from the big ones there. Her father is listed as Finarfin, who was half Noldo, half Vanya. That's what I gather. So she was really MOSTLY Teleri (except I don't see who Olwe's wife was, I assume she too was a Teleri).
Edit: Mostly Teleri by blood, but by "house," figuring it goes by the male lines, a Noldorin princess is right. |
03-26-2003, 04:01 PM | #14 | |||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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03-26-2003, 07:28 PM | #15 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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This occurs throughout ME-Aragorn's appearance changed too-I guess the bloodline does it.
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03-27-2003, 02:29 AM | #16 | |
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I like that little view of the Noldor where it says:
Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-27-2003, 02:57 AM | #17 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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So I'm assuming that it was Elwë's spirit that had changed during the years in trance when he was closely tied to Melian, or perhaps his spirit didn't change, only its hidden power was released.
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03-27-2003, 03:08 AM | #18 | ||
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Quote:
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03-27-2003, 03:28 AM | #19 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Whether it was Eru's will or not, the Great March made all the Elves settle in different places througout Eriador and Beleriand, which is a good thing, enhancing the chance of Men to meet them and learn from them, as they were appointed to.
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03-27-2003, 07:54 AM | #20 | |
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i don't know, but i bet that all this is Vanyarin or Noldorin tradition and that it comes from the Anals of Aman, and that nothing of this can be found in the Grey Anals. i'll try and look for this later.
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