04-23-2003, 01:35 PM | #1 | ||||
Enting
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Finrod Felagund: An obviously well-loved King.
Finrod Felagund: An obviously well-loved King. The greatest of the Kings of his Generation. Thus Greater then Fingon and Meadhros He was a pretty fine lover too, never forgetting his loved one sitting way back in Aman. Quote:
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Two Quessies, Question: By whom was Amárië restrained? By Vanyar? But if she really loved Finrod that she could have gone with him or joined the exiles? The statement implies that she didn’t refuse to go with Finrod due to her own will, and then who restrained her? Could it have been the Valar? But weren’t Valar not supposed to interfere in the matters of the Children? Wasn’t Amárië free to choose what she wanted for herself? Has Tolkien anywhere told the reason why she was restrained and by whom she was restrained? Quote:
My Question is why was he released from Mandos soon? Was their any merit according to which Elves were released by Mandos? Can someone explain in detail the whole procedure of release from Mandos? So the elves that died heroic deaths saving others were released earlier because Mandos took pity at them? Finrod’s case is here, Glorifindel’s case is here? What are your thoughts?
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04-23-2003, 06:07 PM | #2 | ||
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Welcome to my Night... Entmoot, BelegS
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Finrod lived, for the most part, in harmony with the Valar. He was an undeniably Nice Guy (tm). He died a valiant death, keeping the oath he had made to a friend by fighting off a werewolf from the inheritor of that debt. He didn't need to spend much time in mandos because he really didn't /need/ healing. Feanor, as an opposite example, was Messed Up (tm). He was mentally and spiritually corrupt, and because of that he been healed even yet.
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04-23-2003, 06:33 PM | #3 | ||
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I have to disagree. The Valar did not keep the Eldar in Aman, they didn't restain them. That was the lie of Melkor: that the Valar would hold them in captivity in Valinor if they tried to leave.
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I think that if she truely loved Finrod, nothing would have kept her from following him. And since the Valar were not restraining her, in all essence, she was free to go if her will was there. I would think that if they were in love, that at least she was an adult (the other option is really gross), therefore capable of free will. JRRT never said what really kept Amarie from leaving with Finrod. This is the quote from The Sil... Quote:
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04-23-2003, 06:40 PM | #4 |
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Since Tolkien never states who forbid Amarie from joining the Exile, I think Wayfarer has added a very interesting twist to the possibilities. Finrod himself. Very interesting indeed Wayfarer.
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04-23-2003, 06:56 PM | #5 |
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*wink* I knew you'd find this thread SGH.
Can anyone tell me what book and where I can find the quote posted originally that says "not permitted" instead of "she went not with him into exile"? Wayfarer has a good point. But at the time of departure he did not know what would happen to him. So, then why would he keep her from going? |
04-23-2003, 07:00 PM | #6 |
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Yes, I've wondered about the "not permitted" thingy -
It's in PoME, Ruinel, pg. 318 of hardback version (I love those good indicies!) Also appears to be in another HoME book, but I don't know which...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-23-2003, 07:03 PM | #7 |
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Oh, also PoME pg 349, it refs XI.44, §108. Which HoME is XI? Oh, it's WoTJ, isn't it? I wannnnttttsss it, my precious!!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-23-2003, 07:13 PM | #8 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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04-23-2003, 07:20 PM | #9 |
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Still, it's such a strange wording ... it's an authority-type word, and I don't see elves having that type of authority over other elves... I think Tolkien would have used the word 'persuaded' or 'pleaded with her', if it was Finrod that told her to stay .... (RÃ*an is in a musing mood, so is using lots of '.....'s)
The only authority I really can think of as far as keeping people somewhere is Mandos - once someone is with him, they seem to be stuck until he says they can go...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-23-2003, 07:21 PM | #10 |
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You must also remember that Finrod spoke many times about his forbodings and premonitions- he knew he was going to die, and he told his Sister about it. Why wouldn't he have had an inkling before he left valinor?
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04-23-2003, 07:31 PM | #11 | |
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04-23-2003, 07:48 PM | #12 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Well, I've said before that I thought it may also have been a parental decision.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
04-23-2003, 09:35 PM | #13 | ||||
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Thanks. Curious. Do you think that the "not permitted" was abandoned in the final published version of The Sil because it caused the reader to think that the Eldar did not have free will to come and go from Valinor???? |
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04-24-2003, 09:32 AM | #14 | ||
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04-24-2003, 10:29 AM | #15 |
Enting
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The Quotes and The commentry of CT is from Grey Annals, War of Jewel's, HOME £ I don't remember, silly me.
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04-24-2003, 06:26 PM | #16 | |
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However, I can't see any other reason why she wouldn't go with him, your reason sounds like the only logical choice. A) She still would have followed Finrod had he asked her to stay (if she truely loved him). B) The Valar did not keep the Eldar in Valinor. C) If she was more loyal to her parents than to her love, then she might then do as her parents bid and stay with them in Valinor. 'C' is the only logical answer. |
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