05-03-2004, 09:05 AM | #1 |
The Dude
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Philosophy
i did a search and all i could come up with was some thread discussing political philosophy so heres a REAL philosophy thread for us all to enjoy. It doesnt really matter what you want to talk about, whether it be a specific philosopher or just some concepts you dont understand or even those big questions you ponder over when you cant sleep...
well ill start off, i pretty much just love philosophy, it is the only subject at school that i really enjoy, this year were studying 14 authors (or rather 14 different writings of these authors) they are Plato, Aristotle, Epicurus, Nietzsche, Sartre, King, Murdoch, Plato (yes again its not a typo), Descartes, Turing, Armstrong, Plato, Popper and Kuhn... thats right that bastard Plato pops up three times throughout the yeafr anyway we have done the first 7 and i must say, although i didnt agree with most of them, i really enjoyed studying them... in particular Epicurus' "Letter to Menoeceus" i found to be the best of the first three, and of the next four 'modern' philosophers i enjoyed Nietzsche and Murdoch the most then Sartre and then Martin Luther King, who although expressed his views well, didnt grab me like the others.... Anyway ive been studying Iris Murdoch tonight so she is the freshest on my mind, she is a neo-Platonist in many ways (she believes in a transcendantal reality and for her and Plato this is the world of the Forms) one of the things i really liked about her was her unique views, it is something very remarkable for a modern philosopher to believe in the world of the Forms and the form of the Good not as metaphors or as concepts but in the literal way Plato meant them. She believes that humans are naturally selfish and that if we can realise the form of Beauty we suddenly become selfless and everything else becomes less important compared to the thing of beauty. She believes Beauty can be seen in Art and Nature, this means that HB could be listening to a piece of classical music and become selfless or that i could be listening to a Manson song to the same end or Falagar could be reading a great piece of writing in Game or any number of things... I guess why i really liked her views was because she has intergrated a 2000+ year old Philosophers views with her own 20th century life, also theres nothing better than sitting down to a good piece of Art and becoming 'selfless' anyway please talk away
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05-03-2004, 05:52 PM | #2 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Glad you started this, Millane, I've been wanting to start a similar topic, so I'll just join in here instead.
A coupla questions for you- 1. What do you think of Nietzche? What did you enjoy about his thoughts? What areas do you agree and disagree with him in? 2. What do you mean by "selfless"? Is it the opposite of "selfish", since you used that word, or just kind of a neutral state? Acc'd to Murdoch can we become totally selfless, and if so, what does that mean? 3. What do you consider to be beautiful in a Manson song? (I'm not that familiar with his works) Anyway, don't answer if you don't want to, but I had those questions pop into my head when I read your post
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
05-03-2004, 06:35 PM | #3 |
"The Bomb"
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Philosophy is awesome to me. It must be the most interesting, intruiging, and non-stop-learning-associated thing ever for me. I have not studied specific philosphers, but that is the one thing I'm already looking forward to for next year's class I'll take. It's wonderfull to look at so many different points of view, all more or less about peace and harmony through the recognition and apprectiation of beauty. From that, very generally, I have to contribute that open-mindedness is the best trait you can possibly have.
I'm esspecially eager to figure out why Plato (the bastard ) is allowed to be so glorious. Millane, what caught my eye in your post was your calling Iris Murdoch a "neo-Platonist," and later saying that her views were unique. It's hard not to sound rude or skeptical in writing, but how do you think that is possible? (...interperet that as possible?) EDIT: This year and last I've been touching upon philosophies in literature, and many (none come to mind, now that I think about, of course) had me react pretty negatively. If I view someone else's philosphy as un-thought-out nonsense --compounded in stupidity by the fact that they live their whole life by it-- how is my additude looked upon?
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 05-03-2004 at 06:43 PM. |
05-03-2004, 06:39 PM | #4 |
Dead
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I don't know much about philosophy except that I love it.
I sat in on my friend's Macheoveli class and enjoyed it a lot. The thing is that people say they want democracy and freedom, but what they really want is stability and for tomorrow to follow today. They want things to work without their effort.
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How to Survive the Sillmarillion I thought that Alcohol was just for those with nothing else to do. I thought that drinking just to get drunk was a waste of precious booze. But now I know that there's a time and there's a place where I can choose To walk the fine line between self control and self abuse. "Lacerations make complications, but welts go away in a day." |
05-03-2004, 08:37 PM | #5 |
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Random comment number 1: My dad has a philosophy Ph.D.
Random comment number 2: My brother is majoring in computer science and philosophy. Random comment number 3: There's a really funny philosophy/theology book--illustrations demonsrating major ideas/people using pigs. Random comment number 4: All is water (just kidding!)
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05-03-2004, 08:45 PM | #6 | |||||||
The Dude
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05-04-2004, 12:21 PM | #7 |
Elf Lord
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It's too late at night for me to jump into this (great idea, though!)
so I'll just post this link for now (Warning- PG-13) http://www.uq.edu.au/philosophy/pd/springer.html (It helps if you know that Jerry Springer is a really sleazy talk show host who stages bizarre confrontations )
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05-04-2004, 02:39 PM | #8 | |
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*Snaps out of it* It seems to me you all love your wisdom.
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
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05-04-2004, 03:23 PM | #9 | |
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-04-2004, 07:38 PM | #10 | |
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
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05-05-2004, 01:48 AM | #11 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-05-2004, 07:44 AM | #12 |
Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller
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Hmmm... I think that is interesting... I'm sure quite a few people wouldn't be able to consider Manson's music "beautiful".
What is beauty? I think it's sort of a mathematical thing... ratio and proportion... composition, if you will. I think it CAN be seen in many things. It's just sort of an awe-filled existance... something outside of our everyday lives, often in the duration of day-to-day life, but somehow seperate... I don't think it's about whether you like something or not. You have to have the ability to learn to recognize it in things, and then you can find it in many things that you maybe wouldn't immediately like. Ugh, that sounds cliché-ish. hm, now another topic for anyone who would care to discuss... What is Art? Is it the same as Beauty? Can art exist naturally, or occur incidently, or must it be intentionally created by someone? Does it have to express a feeling or idea, or could it be purely aesthetic? What if someone sees something-anything- that to them expresses a feeling or idea, does that make it art?
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I love the fishes. Last edited by Sminty_Smeagol : 05-05-2004 at 07:48 AM. |
05-05-2004, 09:22 AM | #13 | |
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Re: Philosophy
Quote:
GETTING HIGH ON VIOLENCE, BABY! ... it was just hard for me to reconcile the two together. But then, I must admit I'm not much up on 'philosophy' as an academic study.
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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05-05-2004, 12:09 PM | #14 | |
The Blobbit
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I think also for something to be art there needs to be appriciated as something which required skill to produce... back to the brick arguement. But the appearance of art in nature is presumably a philosophical arguement for God. If not, I may have made one... Just my $0.02
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
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05-05-2004, 01:13 PM | #15 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-05-2004, 03:19 PM | #16 |
The Blobbit
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Did you think that American Beauty expressed beauty? I thought it was a good attempt to do so, but something about it seemed flawed... I can't articulate but I felt like I was cheated from real beauty somehow. *Thoughtful pose*
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
05-05-2004, 03:22 PM | #17 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-05-2004, 09:06 PM | #18 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-05-2004, 11:16 PM | #19 | |
"The Bomb"
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Thanks for setting me straight there Millane.
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Of art and beauty, I think they are seperate things, but may be connected by the thinker. I can't elaborate on that without a narrative so: I am depressed because I can't do anything right and everything sucks for me (hypothetially, mind you), and so I go to the most peaceful area I know of, a small portion of a wide stream that opens up into a still pond in a thickly wooded area. I want to just stop and think for as long as I can, but as soon as I get there the sky clouds up, becomes bleak grey, and it begins to rain, disturbing the flat surface of the water and corrupting the image of the woods from peace to loneliness. So I think "Look at this; it just shows you that I can't find what I want anywhere, not even in my most trusted place." That's poetic, and therefore artistic, that the situation would so accurately explain my mood. (In other words, yes art happens naturally .) I look for peace, and am in a dissapointed mood, and then utterly dissapointed by a dissapointing scene. Those woods become an embodiment of dissapointment. <--Artistic I'm depressed still, and so I just get more depressed by realizing the irony of the situation. but to a bystander who is familiar with my mood, who also recognises the irony, they may like it for some reason, find it comforting or pleasing, not in a cruel way but in appreciation for the inevitable laws of life. To that person, the situation has become beautiful.
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05-06-2004, 06:07 AM | #20 | ||||
The Dude
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Re: Re: Philosophy
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seriously you can find philosophical references in many Manson songs Astonishing Panorama of the Endtimes could be seen as agreeing with the Nietzsche idea of God is Dead (aptly with him screaming KILL YOUR GOD ) also in Get your Gunn the line I hate therefore i am can be seen as a take off of Descartes famous argument I think therefore i am, and lots more so lets all run off and listen to the philosophical delights of Marilyn Manson
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