Galadriel's Dire Warning

Celebriel · 02-21-2003, 11:00 PM

One question...

Why does Galadriel warn Legolas to stay far from the sea? Does it have significance to the plot?

- Celebriel

Gwaimir Windgem · 02-22-2003, 12:27 AM

Hello, Celebriel! See you decided to post here.

The only reason I can think of is to avoid having his natural Elvish longing for the Sea awakened, so that he may dwell in Middle-earth for a while in content.

gollum9630 · 02-22-2003, 01:23 AM

ya, she said it would cause him to lose interest in middle earth, and he did when he heard the seagulls

Artanis · 02-22-2003, 04:39 AM

It has no significance to the plot. But it gives an opportunity to tell something about the Elves, that their Sea-longing is inherent but slumbering, and that it is perilous to stir it. It also tells of how much Legolas loved his friend Aragorn, after he heard the gulls cry he always longed to sail over sea, but he waited until Aragorn had died. And I also think it said something about Galadriel, how she cared for each of the members in the company.

Lefty Scaevola · 02-22-2003, 11:12 AM

Legolas is of the Sindar, among who it is common that the 'sea' (euphamism for going to Valinor) longing is dormant for their early life, but once awakened, is very intense.

Celebriel · 02-22-2003, 03:41 PM

Thank you for answering. That part of the LOTR stuck out in my mind and I was waiting for it to be used. But you all have answered the question that has been annoying me for years. Thank you.

I hope to speak with you more, now that I'm a member.

-Celebriel

samwise of the shire · 02-22-2003, 06:28 PM

Wait Wait WAIT! What about the Silvan elves? Weren't they the group that stayed by the sea when the Sindarin and Quenyan elves went over Middle Earth? And that brings up the sea longing. Weren't all the groups related in one way or the other? I know that the Sindar and Quenyan or High Elves were related somehow through Legolas, Elrond, and Arwen. So if the Sindar elves had sea longing why didn't their relatives the High Elves have sea longing? Or did they? Was that why Gildor and the group of High Elves went through the Shire to go to the Grey Havens? And then that brings up Elbereth. Why did the Sindar elves speak the name of Elbereth?
Ok shut me up before I go nuts, *slaps head over with a fish*
Cheers,
A highly confused but extremely interested in elves,
Sam

Celebriel · 02-22-2003, 11:15 PM

My oh my, I believe my simple question has caused distress. My apologies.

-Celebriel

Gwaimir Windgem · 02-23-2003, 02:38 AM

No, no, don't apologise (I don't think so, at least). A big part of a discussion board is discussion.

samwise, by 'Quenyan' Elves, do you mean the Noldor? I'm not entirely sure just what you are talking about.

Miranda · 02-23-2003, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Celebriel
One question...

Why does Galadriel warn Legolas to stay far from the sea? Does it have significance to the plot?

- Celebriel

I haven't yet located where my friend found this poem but she said it was spoken to Legolas before the War of The Ring (knowing my useless intellect though its probably slap bang in the middle of the Fellowship and I've missed it, even after reading the book countless times!) It goes something along the lines of:

Legolas Greenleaf long under tree,
In joy thou hast lived, Beware of the sea!
If thou hearest the cry of the gull on the shore,
Thy heart shall then rest in the forest no more.

Maybe Galadriel's warning to him is because he is a wood elf and crucial to healing what's left of ME after the war e.g. he and Gimli heal in a way the divide between elves and dwarves! Ok I'll shut up now, not making sense! If anyone can tell me where that quote is from I'd really appreciate it. Mx

Elf Girl · 02-23-2003, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Legolas Greenleaf long under tree,n joy thou hast lived, Beware of the sea!
If thou hearest the cry of the gull on the shore,
Thy heart shall then rest in the forest no more.

Galadriel sent it to him by way of Gandalf in TTT.

samwise of the shire · 02-25-2003, 01:04 AM

Quote:

samwise, by 'Quenyan' Elves, do you mean the Noldor?

I think that's what I'm talking about yes. Ummm there are the Noldor elves...the Sindar(or Grey Elves) Elves, and the High Elves...or were the High Elves the same as Noldor elves? I think there are three groups of elves...or are there two? I just want an answer to that please.
Celebriel my brain was wigging out on me. Dont worry about it. I was kind of hyper, and I get a LITTLE frantic when questions upon questions pile up each one feeding of of the one before it.
Cheers,
Sam

Findegil · 02-25-2003, 09:08 AM

It seems we need some clear up with all that groups of Elves running around. I will try to give that out of mind, so there could be some flaws. Please correct if you notice:

From the beginning three were three clans of the Elves or Quendi: Minya, Tatya and (can't remember but later they were call)Lindai

The Lindai from their the first loved water. They awoke near a stream and big lake and never moved willingly far from water.

When the Valar called the elves to Valinor all the Minya made the march and were later named Vanyar.

Half of the Tatya made the march and were called Noldor.

Three quater of the Lindai started the march.

All elves that started the march were called Eldar.

All the other were called Avari.

From the Lindai many did not reach Valinor. Some returned during the march and were therefore called Nandor.
Some searched to long for Thingol and missed the ferry. This were called Eglath.
But the Eglath were further divided in Sub-groups, such as the Falathrim (the Elves of the coast), the Mithrim of the north, and the Elves of Doriath. All the Elves left behind in Beleriand later counted as the Sindar.

All the Elves that reached Valinor during the period of the Trees were called High-Elves or Light-Elves.

All the other were called Dark-Elves. The Name Dark-Elves was first devised during the discussion about the invitation of the Valar and so would be properly only include the Avari but the Noldor used it later in for all Elves that didn't saw the Trees.

The Silvian-Elves or Wood-Elves were a mixture of a few Sindarin a great majority of Nandor and a unknown part of Avari (but such as were originaly from the Lindai), that was formed during the early Second Age in Eriador and Rhovanion.

The Sea-longing was a special feature of all Lindai-Elves. Because of their deep-love for water they were greatly moved by the sea. The other Elves were not of the same mind. When the march reached the coast of Beleriand they even withdraw from the sea in to the woods of Neldoreth and Region until they were in the end transported over the sea.

Respectfully
Findegil

Miranda · 02-25-2003, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
Galadriel sent it to him by way of Gandalf in TTT.

Oh yeah! Just found it now! Stupid Miranda! Oh well, c'set la vie- you wouldn't believe I've read the books as many times as I have! Mx

Artanis · 02-25-2003, 12:12 PM

Findegil, good summary of the sundering of the Elves! I needed that. Thanks!

samwise of the shire · 02-28-2003, 12:38 AM

Ok so basically what you're saying is that after Eru created the elves in ME the Valar wanted them to come to Valinor. *1/2 of the Tatya went to Valinor and became known as the Noldor, 3/4 of the Lindai left and became the Eldar* The Sindar elves were a mix of those Lindai and Avari who stayed in ME...Right?
Ok now I need something else cleared up. How did the Noldor and Eldar get BACK to Middle Earth? Were they the elves that went with Feanor to kick Melkors butt after he stole the Sillmarils?
Cheers,
Sam.
ps. Listen to the BBC Radio production they have a really cool part where Legolas looks at the sea when he's with Aragorn and Gimli taking over the ships of the Corsairs...it's neat. With the Americanized version Legolas hears the gulls in Minas Tirith.

Lefty Scaevola · 02-28-2003, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by samwise of the shire
Wait Wait WAIT! What about the Silvan elves? ...didn't their relatives the High Elves have sea longing? Or did they?

The high elves (Noldor) in ME had a constat 'sea/valinor' longing, less intense than the awakened longing in the Sindar (who were the ones that stayed In Beleriand) but present for most of their lives.

The silvan elves (Nandor) were those that stopped on the great journey east of the Misty Mountains. The most up most of the Mirkwood elves and the majority of the Lorien elves. Some came to Beleriand some centuies after the Vanyar, Noldor, and Falmari went to Valinor and live in Ossirland, and were allies of the Sindar.
There is no text describing a 'sea/valinor' longing in them, but many of them crossed the sea in the 2nd, 3rd, & 4th ages, therefore it was likely present in some form. Even in the story of Nimrondel, there is no metion of here having the longing, but rather a desire to find a place of peace and safety.

***azalea*** · 02-28-2003, 02:36 PM

Can anyone post a couple of "famous" elves from each branch? That would help me put them each into perspective.

Radagast The Brown · 02-28-2003, 04:34 PM

let's see:

Vanyar - Indis (or Yindis?) wife of Finarfin. Her father- Ingwe(or Yingwe?) the leader of the Vanyar.

Noldor - Feanor, Finwe, Fingolfin, Galadriel...

Sindar - Beleg (I think) and Deiron from Doriath (Dairon)

High elves - (Calaquendi?) most of the Noldor and most of the Vanyar. (the same examples)

Dark elves- (Moriquendi?) Haldir, I think. Does Elrond count too?

There are more kinds of elves, I think. (Nandor, Liquendi (sp))

***azalea*** · 03-01-2003, 03:03 PM

Thanks, RtB! That helps.

02-21-2003, 11:00 PM	#1
Celebriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 139	Galadriel's Dire Warning One question... Why does Galadriel warn Legolas to stay far from the sea? Does it have significance to the plot? - Celebriel

02-22-2003, 12:27 AM	#2
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Hello, Celebriel! See you decided to post here. The only reason I can think of is to avoid having his natural Elvish longing for the Sea awakened, so that he may dwell in Middle-earth for a while in content. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

02-22-2003, 04:39 AM	#4
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	Re: Galadriel's Dire Warning It has no significance to the plot. But it gives an opportunity to tell something about the Elves, that their Sea-longing is inherent but slumbering, and that it is perilous to stir it. It also tells of how much Legolas loved his friend Aragorn, after he heard the gulls cry he always longed to sail over sea, but he waited until Aragorn had died. And I also think it said something about Galadriel, how she cared for each of the members in the company. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

02-22-2003, 03:41 PM	#6
Celebriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 139	Thank you for answering. That part of the LOTR stuck out in my mind and I was waiting for it to be used. But you all have answered the question that has been annoying me for years. Thank you. I hope to speak with you more, now that I'm a member. -Celebriel __________________ ~ Celebriel ~ Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes. ~ __________________

02-22-2003, 06:28 PM	#7
samwise of the shire Radically Tolkienited Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+>< Posts: 967	Wait Wait WAIT! What about the Silvan elves? Weren't they the group that stayed by the sea when the Sindarin and Quenyan elves went over Middle Earth? And that brings up the sea longing. Weren't all the groups related in one way or the other? I know that the Sindar and Quenyan or High Elves were related somehow through Legolas, Elrond, and Arwen. So if the Sindar elves had sea longing why didn't their relatives the High Elves have sea longing? Or did they? Was that why Gildor and the group of High Elves went through the Shire to go to the Grey Havens? And then that brings up Elbereth. Why did the Sindar elves speak the name of Elbereth? Ok shut me up before I go nuts, slaps head over with a fish Cheers, A highly confused but extremely interested in elves, Sam __________________ Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA...

02-22-2003, 01:23 AM	#3
gollum9630 Canadian Guy. Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The true North Strong and Free Posts: 1,513	ya, she said it would cause him to lose interest in middle earth, and he did when he heard the seagulls

02-22-2003, 11:12 AM	#5
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Legolas is of the Sindar, among who it is common that the 'sea' (euphamism for going to Valinor) longing is dormant for their early life, but once awakened, is very intense.

02-22-2003, 11:15 PM	#8
Celebriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 139	My oh my, I believe my simple question has caused distress. My apologies. -Celebriel

02-23-2003, 02:38 AM	#9
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	No, no, don't apologise (I don't think so, at least). A big part of a discussion board is discussion. samwise, by 'Quenyan' Elves, do you mean the Noldor? I'm not entirely sure just what you are talking about. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

02-25-2003, 09:08 AM	#13
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	It seems we need some clear up with all that groups of Elves running around. I will try to give that out of mind, so there could be some flaws. Please correct if you notice: From the beginning three were three clans of the Elves or Quendi: Minya, Tatya and (can't remember but later they were call)Lindai The Lindai from their the first loved water. They awoke near a stream and big lake and never moved willingly far from water. When the Valar called the elves to Valinor all the Minya made the march and were later named Vanyar. Half of the Tatya made the march and were called Noldor. Three quater of the Lindai started the march. All elves that started the march were called Eldar. All the other were called Avari. From the Lindai many did not reach Valinor. Some returned during the march and were therefore called Nandor. Some searched to long for Thingol and missed the ferry. This were called Eglath. But the Eglath were further divided in Sub-groups, such as the Falathrim (the Elves of the coast), the Mithrim of the north, and the Elves of Doriath. All the Elves left behind in Beleriand later counted as the Sindar. All the Elves that reached Valinor during the period of the Trees were called High-Elves or Light-Elves. All the other were called Dark-Elves. The Name Dark-Elves was first devised during the discussion about the invitation of the Valar and so would be properly only include the Avari but the Noldor used it later in for all Elves that didn't saw the Trees. The Silvian-Elves or Wood-Elves were a mixture of a few Sindarin a great majority of Nandor and a unknown part of Avari (but such as were originaly from the Lindai), that was formed during the early Second Age in Eriador and Rhovanion. The Sea-longing was a special feature of all Lindai-Elves. Because of their deep-love for water they were greatly moved by the sea. The other Elves were not of the same mind. When the march reached the coast of Beleriand they even withdraw from the sea in to the woods of Neldoreth and Region until they were in the end transported over the sea. Respectfully Findegil

02-25-2003, 12:12 PM	#15
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	Findegil, good summary of the sundering of the Elves! I needed that. Thanks! __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

02-28-2003, 12:38 AM	#16
samwise of the shire Radically Tolkienited Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+>< Posts: 967	Ok so basically what you're saying is that after Eru created the elves in ME the Valar wanted them to come to Valinor. 1/2 of the Tatya went to Valinor and became known as the Noldor, 3/4 of the Lindai left and became the Eldar The Sindar elves were a mix of those Lindai and Avari who stayed in ME...Right? Ok now I need something else cleared up. How did the Noldor and Eldar get BACK to Middle Earth? Were they the elves that went with Feanor to kick Melkors butt after he stole the Sillmarils? Cheers, Sam. ps. Listen to the BBC Radio production they have a really cool part where Legolas looks at the sea when he's with Aragorn and Gimli taking over the ships of the Corsairs...it's neat. With the Americanized version Legolas hears the gulls in Minas Tirith. __________________ Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA...

02-28-2003, 02:36 PM	#18
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Can anyone post a couple of "famous" elves from each branch? That would help me put them each into perspective.

02-28-2003, 04:34 PM	#19
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	let's see: Vanyar - Indis (or Yindis?) wife of Finarfin. Her father- Ingwe(or Yingwe?) the leader of the Vanyar. Noldor - Feanor, Finwe, Fingolfin, Galadriel... Sindar - Beleg (I think) and Deiron from Doriath (Dairon) High elves - (Calaquendi?) most of the Noldor and most of the Vanyar. (the same examples) Dark elves- (Moriquendi?) Haldir, I think. Does Elrond count too? There are more kinds of elves, I think. (Nandor, Liquendi (sp)) __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

03-01-2003, 03:03 PM	#20
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Thanks, RtB! That helps.

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