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06-23-2004, 02:24 PM | #1 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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The Lord of the Rings Discussion Project: Chapter 5 and Chapter 6
I guess I should do this so I can stop feeling guilty about not getting this done.
Chapter 5: A Conspiracy Unmasked This chapter here brings up a very important aspect of the books – and that is the close friendship between the hobbits. The chapter starts off with them getting on the ferry after leaving Farmer Maggots and meeting up with Merry. It goes into the history of the Brandybucks as well as the founding and development of Buckland. “A Conspiracy Unmasked” has a great peaceful, friendly tone and the imagery is very soothing, especially the first part of the chapter. This is basically the last peaceful chapter before they get thrust into the heart of the danger. They still have their innocence here. As they move across the river to Buckland, we get a hint of Sam’s uneasiness with being on boats. This fact comes up again when they go down the Anduin. Once they cross the Brandywine they see movement on the shore they just left. Quote:
After reaching the house, Frodo feels guilt for having lied to his friends. They have gone through all the trouble to make his new home feel and look just like Bag End. When they eat – we see their passion for mushrooms. Frodo even tells his friends to “Take your greedy hands away…” This line is sort of interesting – because he reacts almost as if they had reached for the Ring. After dinner, Pippin tells Merry and Fatty about meeting up with the Black Riders on the way there and about the riders showing up at Farmer Maggot’s looking for Frodo. Frodo then admits that there is a connection between the riders and Bilbo’s treasure. The way the conspiracy is revealed is great, with Merry surprisingly telling Frodo all that he had been thinking. Frodo reveals he must leave immediately and not be hindered. Slowly the closeness and the meaning of their friendship is revealed. First there is this… Quote:
Then comes one of the greatest speeches as far as I am concerned in the entire book. One that I am entirely upset was NOT in the movie… Quote:
After this – it is agreed that they will all come, except for Fatty, with Frodo. One thing I find strange is that Sam just disappears without telling his father. I’ve wondered if Fatty had ever told the Gaffer where Sam went off too. I assume that news must have gone out eventually of what was going on – but Tolkien gives no indication what the Gaffer thought about Sam missing and not returning after going to Buckland. After deciding that they would be going on together and leaving in the morning. The way to leave needs to be determined. Frodo does not want to take an open road where everyone can see him leave. The importance of secrecy is the utmost concern on their minds. They then decide they will go through the Old Forest. Although Fatty objects, Merry declares that he has been in the forest and that it would be much safer than meeting up with the Black Riders. Fatty’s (Fredegar Bolger) purpose is to stay behind and pretend to be Frodo and to answer any questions from people snooping around or looking for Frodo. He is to keep the charade up until Frodo and Company are safely away.
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06-23-2004, 02:26 PM | #2 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Chapter 6: The Old Forest
There really isn’t much to say about the Old Forest. I have mixed feelings about the chapter. I used to hang out in the woods all the time and I love the imagery of this chapter. It really brings you into the forest, but on the other hand – it really doesn’t add much to the characterization or the plot of the story. As usual – Tolkien brings the reader right into the story and makes them feel like they are in the story with the Hobbits. This I feel is one of Tolkien’s great strengths in his story telling. Reading – you can hear the birds, the twigs snapping, you can feel the dread and finality of leaving the shire as the gate clangs shut after they enter the Old Forest. Sadky – this is what is missing from the movies. Never really feeling a part of them – but instead just observing. Going through the Old Forest, one feels the eeriness and the dread. The paths keep shifting, drawing them into the forest and toward the Withywindle valley. This is a prelude to the Fangorn Forest. As they go further, they become sleepy. They unknowingly are being lolled to sleep by the forest. They end up falling asleep by and old grey willow tree. Sam was the least affected and fought off the sleep. He heard a splash and a sound like a door and lock shutting. He found Frodo in the water with a great tree root holding him down. After Sam helps Frodo out, Frodo tells Sam – “…the beastly tree threw me in!” This is the first indication that the trees are actually dangerous. Upon coming to where the others had fallen asleep – they find only their legs sticking out. After trying desperately to pull Merry and Pippin out, they decide they will start a fire around the tree. After getting the fire going, they hear Merry cry “Put it out! Put it out! He’ll squeeze me in two, if you don’t. He says so!” After putting out the fire and failing at freeing their friends, they start to run around and scream for help. All this time it seems as if the willow tree has been mocking them. Suddenly there is the sound of singing. It is our introduction to Tom Bombadil. Tom is described as not being very tall, but taller than a hobbit, he wears a old battered hat with a tall crown and a blue feather, and wears yellow boots with a blue coat. He is wrinkled with lines of laughter, his face is red, he has a long brown beard and his eyes are blue. Tom speaks in a sing-song way. Upon coming to the hobbits, he is told of their plight. And goes up to Old Man Willow… Quote:
Dust came as they were still making their way through the woods to Tom’s house. I have gotten the feeling that the trees are in some ways glaring at them. Upset that their catch has gotten away by this statement “they (the hobbits) caught sight of queer gnarled and knobbly faces that gloomed dark against the twilight, and leered down at them from the high bank and the edges of the wood.” Now that they are under the protection of Tom – the trees won’t hurt them, but they aren’t happy about it either. Once they leave the woods, the come upon the lawn and path leading to Tom Bombadil’s house. They come upon the house with Tom and Goldberry singing welcome to them. Tom Bombadil is the strangest and most mysterious of all the characters I think in Lord of the Rings. There is really no explaination for him. In some ways the book seems to drag on a bit at this point. I like this chapter to a point to where I think part of it should have been included in the movie, I do not think it is completely essential to the story though.
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06-23-2004, 02:42 PM | #3 |
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Interesting... I would have never thought of the 'black bundle' as being anything OTHER than a Black Rider. It seems a natural to leave your horse at the bank and walk out onto a dock - and I figured the 'bundle' appearance was from stooping over to sniff - and maybe the view being obscured a bit by the fog.
A subtle thing I only recently thought about. The end of Chapter 5 tells us the first of several significant dreams that Frodo has. In this dream he is first looking from a window over a 'dark sea of tangled trees' with sounds of creatures crawling and snuffling down below - and then the dream shifts and he's before a White Tower near the Sea itself. Maybe we need a separate thread to discuss the various dreams as a whole, but what do the rest of you think of this dream itself. What does it mean? Why does he dream it (IOW, where does the dream come from?)?
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06-23-2004, 02:49 PM | #4 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I was actually going to mention the dreams. I was trying to figure out if that was some sort of forshadowing. But it only seems to me like the most likely - to be going over to the west.
As for leaving the horse on the bank while going on the dock. That's not the case in the movie. Seriously though - I don't find it really odd to walk or ride a horse slowly onto a dock. This part reminds me a lot of colonial and revolutionary New Jersey. We had many ferries like this at that time. They used to take their horses onto the ferries to cross the rivers, such as the Delaware - so they would have to bring horses onto the docks.
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06-23-2004, 02:54 PM | #5 |
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Maybe the Nazgul's horse had some scary premonition about water?
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06-23-2004, 04:45 PM | #6 | ||||||||
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Re: The Lord of the Rings Discussion Project: Chapter 5 and Chapter 6
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-23-2004, 04:54 PM | #7 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(I told JD that I took chapters 7 and 8 on purpose, because I always had trouble with Tom Bom, and I wanted to force myself to get into it more!) Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-23-2004, 05:03 PM | #8 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
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06-23-2004, 05:05 PM | #9 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Oh, I love the Barrow Downs, too! Really creepy! I just skipped all theTom stuff before the Barrow Downs.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
06-23-2004, 07:41 PM | #10 |
The Intermittent One
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excellent intro JD,
I will comment and discuss later, when i can find my books! |
06-23-2004, 07:58 PM | #11 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I meant to post this with my intro - but I forgot. I took this picture at the Hancock House in southern New Jersey (a 18th century house where the British massacred 30 people during the Revolution). The person that does the tours at the house gave an interesting story. From what she was told - about 20 years ago or so there was a middle school field trip to the house. At that time the hole in tree was much bigger. Big enough for a middle schooler to fit into. The students were warned to stay away from the tree. Boy being boys I guess - one decided they were going to explore and see what was in the tree. He attempted to climbed through the hole, but ended up getting stuck halfway and couldn't get out. After several hours they finally managed to rescue him. The person who runs the house said at first she didn't know if it was true or not, but then three people at different times told her the same story while viewing the house. She said it reminded her of Old Man Willow and that is why I decided to take the picture. I thought I would post this picture. Even though it's not a willow tree - it is interesting. Here is a picture as it looks on the property. It's the large tree between the Swedish colonial cabin and the house. In Princeton there is also a tree with a "face" that looks like an ent. That picture appeared in our paper the one day.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 06-23-2004 at 08:16 PM. |
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06-24-2004, 03:46 AM | #12 | |||
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06-24-2004, 12:47 PM | #13 | |||
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Rider 2 : I don't know, mate - them Hobbits all look alike to me! I guess it just boils down to this whole idea of terrible danger was just too foreign to them still, even with Gildor's warnings.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 06-24-2004 at 12:49 PM. |
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06-24-2004, 12:57 PM | #14 |
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Well - remember too that Merry, Pippin, Fatty and maybe Sam had already made this plan... and that Merry and Fatty had only just heard about the Black Riders. It wasn't Frodo's plan - and I think they stuck with it for lack of a better thing to do. Fatty 'filling in' for Frodo was meant to fool local inhabitants. I don't think they counted on (maybe even thought about) a visit from the Black Riders.
Plus, Fatty seemed to fear the Old Forest (which he had heard bad stories about for his whole life) more than he feared the Black Riders (whom he had only just heard a little about for the first time).
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06-24-2004, 01:17 PM | #15 | ||
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06-24-2004, 01:56 PM | #16 |
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Hmmm... OK then, strike the 'maybe even thought about' part. But still, it WAS just a matter of sticking with the plan they had already made... and Fatty anyway appeared to be more scared of the Old Forest than of the Black Riders.
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06-24-2004, 03:40 PM | #17 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-30-2004, 11:01 AM | #18 | |
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06-30-2004, 05:51 PM | #19 | |
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Having re-read The Old Forest, I think it marks an important transition in the writing. It's as if the hobbits are leaving the mundane world and entering a kind of ethereal realm, where songs come to life and mysterious powers run through the earth, air and water.
In particular, the way Tolkien describes the river valley where Old Man Willow lives is incredibly vivid: a beautiful, hazy summer heat that you can almost taste. The last line: Quote:
I'm quite glad they didn't render it in film; no way would PJ have got it right. It was a delight to come across it again and not have any film images cluttering up my mental picture of it. |
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07-02-2004, 11:32 AM | #20 | |
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