07-09-2004, 12:50 PM | #1 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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A second death
If we believe that Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of Rivendell are one and the same, then we accept that Glorfindel died in battle with the balrog in the First Age and went to the Halls of Mandos, was released, and thus returned to Middle-earth sometime in the Second Age. As far as we know, he is the only Elf to return to Middle-earth after death. Why did he, and what would have happened had he been killed a second time? Would he return again to Mandos and be re-embodied again and then go to Valinor? IIRC, only one other Elf was subject to a second death, and that was Luthien.
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07-13-2004, 05:24 PM | #2 | |||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Re: A second death
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07-14-2004, 04:47 AM | #3 |
Elf Lord
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Was there some connection between how "good" a particular elf had been and how long they had to wait before being re-embodied? I seem to recall something about this WRT bad-boy Feanor never being reincarnated at all.
Surely Sauron hold the record, though! (Fall of Numenor, end of the Second Age and end of the Third Age) |
07-14-2004, 05:12 AM | #4 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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WRT?
You're right, Fëanor was never reembodied, but I don't know whether it was by his own wish or by the judgement of Mandos, or Námo as his real name was. Quote:
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07-14-2004, 12:01 PM | #5 |
Elf Lord
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WRT = with respect to
Just joking about Sauron btw (by the way) |
07-14-2004, 12:29 PM | #6 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Quote:
And this post is SOT, btw.
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07-14-2004, 12:32 PM | #7 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Quote:
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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07-30-2004, 06:07 PM | #8 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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I would certainly think that since Glorfindel certainly had Valar permission to return to Middle-earth, an unique thing, if he had been killed he would have been reanimated.
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08-08-2004, 04:31 PM | #9 | |||||||
Enting
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The 'two' Glorfindel characters are confirmed to be the same elf in a number of places. An early version of the Council of Elrond (found in HoME VI) mentions Glorfindel speaking of his history in Gondolin. Christopher Tolkien comments on this in the History of Middle-earth XII:
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From "Glorfindel I" as Christopher refers to it: Quote:
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The following are from 'Glorfindel II.' Quote:
Quote:
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Turns out Glorfindel was (is) a pretty great fellow.
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'Legolas' on The Barrow-Downs ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. Last edited by Ulmo : 08-08-2004 at 04:46 PM. |
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08-08-2004, 06:58 PM | #10 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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Good post. It certainly agrees with all I know.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
08-10-2004, 12:43 PM | #11 |
Elf Lord
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Ah, Ulmo, you have given us a rare gift: the old thread killer. That's right, you may not have realized it, but you used this weapon, this old Thread Killer, and laid waste to the Horde of Posts-That-Might-Have-Been. "How did I do that?" you ask? Why, it's a complex process, but I can say that the Old Thread Killer can only be used by those with a hefty Tolkien book in their lap, time to kill, and patience to type a lot from the trusty book of heft. No one can really post anything of value after that, for all is defined that can be defined, and all other comments and contributions are in vain--a double edged sword, is mighty Thread Killer. I used to do that. ... Memories ...
Ulmo, O Dweller In The Deep, I salute you, for you have taken The Book Of Heft from my lap, and have placed in the palm of your holy hand. It is well that it is so. Only you can bear this burden. Only you. *broods*
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Falmon -- Dylan Last edited by Ñólendil : 08-10-2004 at 12:44 PM. |
08-10-2004, 12:44 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
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08-10-2004, 12:46 PM | #13 |
Mootis per forum
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I've been betrayed by the who's online
I cannot believe you cannot add anything else...
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Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. |
08-10-2004, 12:52 PM | #14 |
Elf Lord
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Alas that I cannot! For my Books of Heft lie stagnant in the garage, covered in the muck of neglect, and though my time indeed can be slain, I slay it rather with the Geekness of my mind when I engage in the noble pursuit of the Role-Playing Game. And that, sadly, is not the end of my troubles; my patience to deliver long-winded replies and quotes from the Books of Heft, even were they in my lap, has left me all alone. I linger now only to haunt the trees of Entmoot, remembering a time when I was free. *weeps*
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Falmon -- Dylan |
08-10-2004, 01:14 PM | #15 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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< throws "Snickers and popcorn at ^. You're soooo dramatic.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
08-10-2004, 06:28 PM | #16 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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I have been known to post in that vein, but I am reliably drunk at the time. But, that's just me.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
08-17-2004, 02:47 PM | #17 |
Deus Ex Machina
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Well, if the original question has been answered, perhaps a follow up question should be asked.
Assuming that Glorfindel would 'pop back' were he to die a second time, do you think that such a think might have occured and gone unwritten? It does say that he's in several battles after coming back to middle earth. What if he did die in one of them, do you think he'd have to go through the entire re-embodiment process again or do you think they would use a short cut? (This is all pure speculation, but it's fun, so go ahead and discuss.)
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"5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE.-Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi |
08-18-2004, 08:48 AM | #18 |
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When it comes to the whole reembodied thing I always thought of the Halls of Mandos as kind of a large retirement home and the winner of bingo got to be reembodied.
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08-18-2004, 02:59 PM | #19 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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Quote:
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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08-20-2004, 12:38 AM | #20 |
Enting
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After dying twice, I doubt he'd want to go back!
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'Legolas' on The Barrow-Downs ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. |
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