09-12-2004, 07:28 AM | #1 | ||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
Maeglin and Idril, and marriage
I wonder if the published Silmarillion is wrong when stating that Maeglin and Idril could not marry, because they were too closely related? While browsing through Laws and Customs of the Eldar, I came by this:
Quote:
L and C goes on saying: Quote:
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. |
||
09-12-2004, 07:30 AM | #2 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
|
Maybe Turgon forbid it seeing what Eol was and think that Maeglin could become like him.
__________________
Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
09-12-2004, 09:11 AM | #3 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Israel
Posts: 6,975
|
Quote:
|
|
09-12-2004, 10:51 AM | #4 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
|
He may not of thought him evil but perhaps he could see part of his father in him.
__________________
Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
09-12-2004, 11:09 AM | #5 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
My concern is not whether Turgon would accept Maeglin as son-in-law or not. I am asking: Why do the Sil say that Maeglin's desire for Idril was without hope, because "the Eldar wedded not with kin so near" while this statement is clearly contradicted in HoME 10?
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. |
09-12-2004, 02:30 PM | #6 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
|
Maybe it was just a mistake!
__________________
Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
09-12-2004, 03:10 PM | #7 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Quote:
In any case Idril was much against such a marriage and that may very well explain why Maeglin's desire was without hope anyway. Even in the possibility that close-kin-marriages were accepted in their society, he'd could never marry Idril if she did not wished to.
__________________
We are not things. |
|
09-12-2004, 04:33 PM | #8 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
|
But would it have been allowed even if Idril had wanted it.
__________________
Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
09-12-2004, 04:46 PM | #9 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Israel
Posts: 6,975
|
Quote:
|
|
09-13-2004, 02:43 PM | #10 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
09-13-2004, 08:48 PM | #11 |
Enting
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Valinor
Posts: 76
|
Likely because Tolkien had not written Laws and Customs of the Eldar when he wrote the chapter, and Christopher Tolkien had not yet found/read Laws and Customs of the Eldar when he published the chapter.
That's often the case when things in The Silmarillion (published work) don't agree with the Silmarillion writings found in the History of Middle-earth (especially in the most recent writings). Tolkien obviously hadn't got around to "synching" everything up, and while CT did the best he could with what he had, he admits to that the published work isn't in perfect form, often because he did not find a lot of his father's writings (in HoME and otherwise) until after the completion of the project.
__________________
'Legolas' on The Barrow-Downs ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. Last edited by Ulmo : 09-13-2004 at 08:55 PM. |
09-14-2004, 01:54 AM | #12 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
That's what I thought was the most likely explanation too. But I thought perhaps someone knew about other passages in HoME that could shed some light on the subject. But it seems that there are none.
Which once again proves that the published Sil is not an accurate source for information.
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. |
09-14-2004, 02:48 AM | #13 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
|
You've got to remember that JRRT didn't totally finish the Sil.
__________________
Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
09-14-2004, 03:50 AM | #14 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Um, I think that's a given, Telcontar... More to the point, Christopher edited in a few things incorrectly from his father's notes.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
09-14-2004, 10:18 AM | #15 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
...which leaves us only in the guessing stage of whether or not Tolkien last views on Elven marriages allowed these close-kin-marriages.
__________________
We are not things. |
09-14-2004, 10:52 AM | #16 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
|
Quote:
EDIT: PS - don't know that he ever got it, but I sent a 'Thank You' card to Christopher once... about 1 1/2 years ago. I didn't have an address, so it had to go c/o the publisher.
__________________
My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! Last edited by Valandil : 09-14-2004 at 11:00 AM. |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
CH. 16: "Of Maeglin" | azalea | The Silmarillion Project | 37 | 11-07-2018 10:07 AM |
Character analysis: Eöl, Maeglin | Artanis | The Silmarillion | 61 | 09-20-2004 12:54 PM |