04-09-2004, 06:29 AM | #1 |
The Blobbit
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Immigration and Multiculturalism
Recently it has become wrong to say Britain is a multicultural society. This, I found, was quite amusing. It seems that words must become replaced when their connotations become undesirable, but that the words which replace them always take on the same meanings and connotations.
The real fear I have though is relating to the recent speeches outside mosques in London. People stood and said they had no allegiance to the Queen, no respect for the police, no belief that they should follow government. At the risk of sounding too right wing: What a bloody nerve. It is incidentally ‘high treason’, the last crime in Britain for which execution by hanging can be employed. Of course, I do not suggest for a moment that that is a good idea to form martyrs (and oppose capital punishment anyway). I just question how people such as these should be dealt with. In this case it was actually British nationals who were making this stand, but should it be necessary for patriotic British people to accept this? Is deporting undesirables morally acceptable, even if only from the viewpoint that in prisons the state is subsidising their existence? It is disturbing that in what it professed as a multicultural society, there was still a proportion of mosques in Britain which refused to accept the Muslim Council’s suggestion that violent extremism should be prevented by the Muslims in mosques. I appreciate the contribution of many different cultures to British society, but should it be right that action against the extremists be seen as an action against the whole?
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04-09-2004, 07:08 AM | #2 |
Elf Lord
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Who says it's wrong to describe Britain as a multicultural society?
People should be free to say what they want. I don't feel any particular loyalty to the Queen. Should I be deported? Where to? Why should we have to "deal with them" at all? What are you afraid of? I don't think it's particularly helpful to dwell upon the rantings of a few extremists. If we do, we just provide them with better arguments, then things start to get really out of hand. |
04-09-2004, 08:56 AM | #3 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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i agree... i'm a free speech fan... if it moves to actions which are against common law, take action, otherwise let them say what they want
it's also to important to remember that people are individuals... things like deportation due to beliefs or ancestry will only serve to increase animosity
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04-09-2004, 10:08 AM | #4 |
Elf Lord
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Too right.
Another thing is the blurring of debates. "Immigration = terrorist towelheads" is the reactionary agenda behind these kinds of headlines (not suggesting you share these views, Janny, but I reckon the Daily Mail does). Also, let's not forget that the Queen is descended from a German family. Before that, the Royals were Dutch, Scots, French, Danish, take your pck. See me? I'm of Pictish descent. My ancestors were here before the Romans. So all you immigrant scum of Roman/Anglo Saxon/Norse/Norman descent can feck off back to euroland or wherever. |
04-09-2004, 10:10 AM | #5 | |
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04-09-2004, 10:26 AM | #6 |
Elf Lord
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LOL! I think the word you're looking for is "hospitable"
* looks for a smiley for that scene out of braveheart where they lifted their kilts to flash their arses at the English * * doesn't find one * Actually, the Picts were the only British tribe the Romans didn't conquer. Nothing at all to do with the absence of anything useful north of Falkirk and completely to do with our heroic and indomitable nature, I'm sure. ahem. |
04-09-2004, 10:32 AM | #7 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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Are you actually of Pictish descent though or Scottish? I expect after 1500 years, nobody really knows (or we're all a bit of everything). The 'Scots' were actually Irish pirates who finally came to stay, right? On my father's side, I'm mostly Welsh/English/Scottish/whoknowswhatelse... with a smidgeon of American Indian thrown in.
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04-09-2004, 10:54 AM | #8 |
Elf Lord
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Yes, well you're right about the Scots, who came from Ireland, and about genealogy in general, because we're all probably descended from each other at some point.
However, my family name comes from right in the heart of "Pictish" territory, so at least the Y chromosome is probably Pictish! There's a fair bit of red hair going about my person and other people have told me I have Pictish features, so after skewering them on my claymore I assume they must be right. Congratulations on your florid heritage! Shame about the English part, but hey, nobody's perfect. After all, "we're a' Jock Tamson's bairns" (meaning that we're all the same under the skin) in the end. Last edited by The Gaffer : 04-09-2004 at 10:56 AM. |
04-09-2004, 10:58 AM | #9 |
Elf Lord
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Oh, and speaking of bairns.. I miss your old avatar. Bring back the terrible triplets!!
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04-09-2004, 11:18 AM | #10 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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For the 'being the same under the skin' - I did the following number thing once: Again, probably stemming from my interest in Arthur - and targeting him about 1500 years before myself... I thought, OK, I have 2 parents, had 4 grandparents and 8 great-grandparents. My gr-grands lived very nearly 100 years before me. That means that about 100 years ago, I had 8 ancestors about my current age. 100 years before that, each of THEM had 8 ancestors - so 200 years ago, I had 64 ancestors! We can continue multiplying by 8 for each 100 years: 300 years ago - 512 ancestors 400 years ago - 4,096 ancestors 500 years ago - 32,768 ancestors etc... until 1500 years ago, about the time of any historical King Arthur, I have about 33 trillion 'ancestors' - most of whom were likely in Europe. Now, of course the population was nowhere NEAR that, so there's a lot of duplication and with generational slippage (my term... some of my ancestors in the 45th degree (EDIT: oops - initially put 24th) would have lived 1500 years ago - but some maybe 1200 or 2000 years ago) and I'm sure the full web would get quite tangled. But anyway, if all Europe's population was maybe one millionth that (33 mill or so) - I expect there's a VERY GOOD chance I'm descended from King Arthur... if he had any surviving and propogating children at all! I imagine YOU are too! (EDIT: This also speaks to HOW RELATED we all are!)
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04-09-2004, 11:21 AM | #11 | |
The Intermittent One
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i am of celtic descent also, though mainly through welsh and irish lines, i also have a wee birra scots blood coursing through my veins. i say we take britain back, i'll be king, u can be prime minister |
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04-09-2004, 11:33 AM | #12 |
Her Infernal Majesty
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I am also proud of my Scottish/Welsh bloodline, with a few bits of Irish flowing through me as well.
And who says you can be king! I might want to.
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04-09-2004, 11:43 AM | #13 | |
Elf Lord
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Ach, just put me in charge of the confiscated contraband.
Valandil - that's a good one. Wasn't there a thing about how we're all descended from one female common ancestor? Here you go: Quote:
And speaking of Scotland, I'm off up there for a week, starting now, so have a barry Easter a'body. |
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04-09-2004, 11:48 AM | #14 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! Last edited by Valandil : 04-09-2004 at 11:50 AM. |
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04-09-2004, 11:58 AM | #15 | |
Elf Lord
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04-09-2004, 02:37 PM | #16 | |
The Blobbit
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I realise how close to the Daily Mail this must sound, but I generally disapprove of taking political views from toilet paper... I am also a fan of free speech, but I think that inciting violence etc is wrong. If I stood up in London and said all Muslims should be I would, rightly, be arrested. However the same cannot be done because the inciter is at risk of becoming focal point for the cause.
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
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04-10-2004, 05:46 AM | #17 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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A word from across the pond. Studies have shown that native Britons will be in the minority before 2025. In the US, whites will be in the minority by 2019 (I believe) and similar dates are predicted for all European countries. This is due to declining birthrate of one group and the prolific birthrate of the "immigrant population". In most countries those immigrants have not adopted the culture or the language of their chosen country save for signing up for government assistance.
So, the UK and the US are multi-cultural by definition only because the influx has not assimilated or chosen not to. The fractionalization of ethnic, religious and social groups is destroying western civilization as we have come to know it. ...most distressing.
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04-10-2004, 02:27 PM | #18 | ||
Elf Lord
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And many of them will have been there for a few generations. Including the white immigrants (at the very most another 10%) and that gives a native British population of at least 70%, even if you don't count 'returnees' like my sister, who is Canadian of British stock- and of course we usually acknowledge nice white Europeans as being part of Western civilisation, no? In the US, the projected date of non-Latino whites becoming a minority is 2050. (I guess you wouldn't consider Cervantes, Goya, Picasso, Llosa or Marquez to be part of Western Civilisation ) As for assimilation, currently one-third of all Hispanics in the US marry non-Hispanics, the number is higher for Asians. (Asians will be 8% of the population, but they use government services less than whites and get better education for their kids) If that part of "Western Civilisation" that is destroyed is the part that identifies itself with the Confederate States of America, I for one won't be distressed in the least- the quicker the better.
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04-10-2004, 02:49 PM | #19 | |
Quasi Evil
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our vaunted western civilization is just the latest manifistation of cultural identity in our long and winding history as a species. Its been constantly changing since the beginning of humanity. Its NORMAL. How do you think the Romans felt when the Visigoths were sacking and burning a thousand years of empire and "high civilization". It was the end of the WORLD to them! But now... the visigoths and the romans ARE the Italians. Interesting huh... And your implication here is that anything but standard white "western" way of thinking and living is a negative. I disagree with your premise at its very base. The "stay in your damn country or assimilate" way of thinking is a dead end my friend. And can never work according to the very mathematics of human migration and propogation. Embrace diversity or die on the side of the road I say. Thats my advice to you.
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04-10-2004, 03:36 PM | #20 |
the Shrike
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^Agrees with IR. The sooner the stupid white bastards are assimilated the better.
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