Summit

emplynx · 07-13-2002, 12:16 PM

Tommorow morining I am heading down to Dayton, TN for a Christian Worldview conference

Quote:

The Summit helps you equip students to articulate an intelligent, compassionate Christian worldview. AND, it motivates them to lead.

Is anyone familiar with this program? It originated in Colorado with Focus on the Family (I think). Anyway, I'll be down there for two weeks learning about things like, Team Leadership, apologetics

, Law & Government, Argument & Debate, Political & Community Action, Journalism, Christianity & Science, and Music. I'll give you all a report when I get back.

Darth Tater · 07-13-2002, 01:31 PM

Ah, Focus on the Family, one of the more evil branches of the very evil Christian Right.

emplynx · 07-13-2002, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Tater
one of the more evil branches of the very evil Christian Right.

FotF (hey, that's almost like FotR!) is a good group.

Rána Eressëa · 07-13-2002, 03:50 PM

Can't we just do it the old fashioned way? By ourselves?

BeardofPants · 07-13-2002, 05:28 PM

Just what we need... more mis-education.

Emp, I wouldn't want you to lead a goober out of my nose, let alone some impressionable young minds.

LuthienTinuviel · 07-13-2002, 05:36 PM

i'd LOVE to hear about the christianity and science part.

and same for me as BoP..

emplynx · 07-13-2002, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Just what we need... more mis-education. \

I don't think we need anymore of that, american school's already teach pleanty of evolution... Creationism should be taught too.

BeardofPants · 07-13-2002, 05:45 PM

Now Emplynx, IGNORANCE IS NO EXCUSE!

Next you'll be telling me, you want to yank science out of the curriculum.

emplynx · 07-13-2002, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Next you'll be telling me, you want to yank science out of the curriculum.

No, I'm fine if evolution is taught - but since it isn't absolutely proven Creation should be taught equally.

Rána Eressëa · 07-13-2002, 06:22 PM

*bites her lip* No comment!

noldo · 07-13-2002, 07:38 PM

And there are still people around who actually think that earth is flat, so...

mirrille · 07-13-2002, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by emplynx
No, I'm fine if evolution is taught - but since it isn't absolutely proven Creation should be taught equally.

Not equally. Evolutionary theory is a scientific one, with some great stories about how such theories get built, taken apart, rexamined, having pieces replaced, then built again over time. I find it particularly good for teaching people what you can and cannot conclude based on available evidence, which is what true science is all about. When you start to understand the power and pitfalls of science, i think it's a real milestone in becoming a scientist. Evolution belongs in science class.
Creationism is a totally different thought system. A religion based system, and so, if taught, belongs in a Bible study class- if you are a denominational school - or a comparative religion class - if you are a non-denominational school, which of course all public schools should be. Creationism can easily be integrated into a social studies curriculum. I believe that comparative religion classes should be required anyways, in some form or other, on par in importance with studying the history of your own country and international history, because they help us understand the background for our society. So I think they should both be taught. But with different context, because they are different philosophical systems.
Have fun at your summit. Intelligence and compassion are always appreciated, Christian or otherwise. But of course, no meeting can teach that.

emplynx · 07-13-2002, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mirrille
Creationism is a totally different thought system.

I disagree, creationism can be "proved" the same way evolution can be "proved". With no mention of the Bible.

***HOBBIT*** · 07-14-2002, 12:10 AM

Show me your proof emplynx

Now, this topic of Creation "science" has been exhausted. A long time ago, a member named Quickbeam started a Creation "science" topic trying to prove it. Another old member, Juntel, disected each of his posts point by point and answered them using logic, proving how each was incorrect. Actually, everyone who posted in that topic that didn't have any proof or reasoning other than they were Christian and followed the bible strictly was humiliated by Juntel - even Darth Tater.

I didn't partake in that topic.

But my view is certainly that Creationism should NEVER be taught in schools. Creation is not a science, but religion. People that believe in that will never change their beliefs because its their religion. Evolution is a science. It is a theory. So far, the best theory we have for explaning everything. Theories are not definate fact, but the closet so far to a fact as you are going to get. It is accepted by a majority of scientists. When new evidence is found, a new theory will inevitably be divised. And guess what? Scientists will change their beliefs to match it. Theories change all the time - what we know to be true.
Ex: We knew that the world was flat. Now due to science and new theories, we know that it is in fact round. So it is in no way a religion. Creationism is a religion. You have no proof what-so-ever except for your bible - its a belief - not to be confused with science. That is just my opinion.

Respond to that if you like, but this topic is NOT about Creation vs Evolution. If you really want to start another one of those topics, feel free to take it up with several other admins. I don't want another one of those. It caused Quickbeam to leave in humiliation.

Read the old topic - its a good read: Creation Science topic

edit: and why did you group "Christianity & Science" together? What is the relation? Science is science, Christianity is just a religion. How do they relate?

Rána Eressëa · 07-14-2002, 12:40 AM

I totally agree with HOBBIT. Creationism teaches us a spiritual, magical force of everything with the capacity of thought, reasoning, and all human emotions created and creates everything with a word/action/thought, etc.

Evolution is merely science that doesn't rely on spiritual or magical forces to create life. It explains creation and growth of life through things that we can prove physically exist.

Therefore, they should not both be taught equally in classrooms.

Heck, if you're going to allow Christianity into schools you better also let in Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Paganism, etc. or you aren't being fair to the people who believe creationism through different god(s) and/or tales. Personally, I think it all belongs in Mythology class.

***Khamûl*** · 07-14-2002, 12:41 AM

Maybe the Christianity & Science thing is about Christian views of science. That's what it sounds like to me.

BeardofPants · 07-14-2002, 12:50 AM

I agree with HOBBIT.

Granted, the theory of evolution suffers from much the same dilemma as any other field of study - human fallacy and subjectivity, but at least it's based on a system whereby it is tested until the hypothesis is proven to be true or false, instead of pulling out "facts" from a black tophat.

And unlike ideologies, evolution is adaptable to new evidence. Some christians complain that we can't get our facts straight, and decide on a theory once and for all, but that is the beauty of both science and social science, that the theories are open to change and development. Better to incorporate new evidence into the ever-changing theory, than to ignore it in the hopes of it going away.

(Although, I DO live in eternal optimism that if I ignore Emplynx he will cease to exist...

)

cassiopeia · 07-14-2002, 02:20 AM

I agree with HOBBIT and BoP. Evolution is a FACT, although the theory of exactly how it occurs can and probably will change in the future. Although you can never prove anything, there is much evidence of evolution. From the fossil record and DNA evidence it can be extrapolated that evolution is the only way to explain this event. Evolution is science and creationism is mythology (and some other names I won't mention.) I know people find it difficult to take that we are decended from apes and fish and everything else on the planet, but is the truth and it doesn't bother me. If people want to believe that creationism is the truth, fine by me, but don't teach it to kids along side evolution.

Andúril · 07-14-2002, 04:26 AM

I am of the opinion that religion should be taught at schools as an exclusive subject, perhaps comprising of theological and historical viewpoints. I would prefer to have school kids informed as to why people think and live the way they do.

***HOBBIT*** · 07-14-2002, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anduril
I am of the opinion that religion should be taught at schools as an exclusive subject, perhaps comprising of theological and historical viewpoints. I would prefer to have school kids informed as to why people think and live the way they do.

Ok, I woke up to check out the news and entmoot

Now Anduril, do you mean you want religion taught or christianity taught? Religion would be a good subject - for study/history purposes only. Obvioulsy you meant not teaching kids a certain religion as truth. There is seperation of church and state for a reason. This would have to be a purely optional course and be purely HISTORIC. As in no Jesus preaching. If there were such a course, Christianity would not be the main focus of course. There would be Judiasm, Budhism, Islam, Hindu, all those ancient religions of course as well. But just teaching religion to young impressionable minds is NOT A GOOD IDEA.

07-13-2002, 01:31 PM	#2
Darth Tater The man Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: MA Posts: 4,572	Ah, Focus on the Family, one of the more evil branches of the very evil Christian Right. __________________ Visit the worlds greatest webpage! No, not The Tolkien Trail! Just click this! The Tolkien Trail ~Camelot

07-13-2002, 05:28 PM	#5
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Just what we need... more mis-education. Emp, I wouldn't want you to lead a goober out of my nose, let alone some impressionable young minds. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

07-13-2002, 05:36 PM	#6
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	:o i'd LOVE to hear about the christianity and science part. and same for me as BoP.. __________________

07-13-2002, 05:45 PM	#8
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Now Emplynx, IGNORANCE IS NO EXCUSE! Next you'll be telling me, you want to yank science out of the curriculum. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

07-14-2002, 12:10 AM	#14
*HOBBIT* Saviour of Entmoot Admiral Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.) Posts: 61,986	Show me your proof emplynx Now, this topic of Creation "science" has been exhausted. A long time ago, a member named Quickbeam started a Creation "science" topic trying to prove it. Another old member, Juntel, disected each of his posts point by point and answered them using logic, proving how each was incorrect. Actually, everyone who posted in that topic that didn't have any proof or reasoning other than they were Christian and followed the bible strictly was humiliated by Juntel - even Darth Tater. I didn't partake in that topic. But my view is certainly that Creationism should NEVER be taught in schools. Creation is not a science, but religion. People that believe in that will never change their beliefs because its their religion. Evolution is a science. It is a theory. So far, the best theory we have for explaning everything. Theories are not definate fact, but the closet so far to a fact as you are going to get. It is accepted by a majority of scientists. When new evidence is found, a new theory will inevitably be divised. And guess what? Scientists will change their beliefs to match it. Theories change all the time - what we know to be true. Ex: We knew that the world was flat. Now due to science and new theories, we know that it is in fact round. So it is in no way a religion. Creationism is a religion. You have no proof what-so-ever except for your bible - its a belief - not to be confused with science. That is just my opinion. Respond to that if you like, but this topic is NOT about Creation vs Evolution. If you really want to start another one of those topics, feel free to take it up with several other admins. I don't want another one of those. It caused Quickbeam to leave in humiliation. Read the old topic - its a good read: Creation Science topic edit: and why did you group "Christianity & Science" together? What is the relation? Science is science, Christianity is just a religion. How do they relate? __________________ President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares!

07-13-2002, 03:50 PM	#4
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	Can't we just do it the old fashioned way? By ourselves?

07-13-2002, 06:22 PM	#10
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	bites her lip No comment!

07-13-2002, 07:38 PM	#11
noldo Elven Icon Maker Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Finland Posts: 517	And there are still people around who actually think that earth is flat, so...

07-14-2002, 12:40 AM	#15
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	I totally agree with HOBBIT. Creationism teaches us a spiritual, magical force of everything with the capacity of thought, reasoning, and all human emotions created and creates everything with a word/action/thought, etc. Evolution is merely science that doesn't rely on spiritual or magical forces to create life. It explains creation and growth of life through things that we can prove physically exist. Therefore, they should not both be taught equally in classrooms. Heck, if you're going to allow Christianity into schools you better also let in Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Paganism, etc. or you aren't being fair to the people who believe creationism through different god(s) and/or tales. Personally, I think it all belongs in Mythology class. Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 07-14-2002 at 12:41 AM.

07-14-2002, 12:41 AM	#16
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	Maybe the Christianity & Science thing is about Christian views of science. That's what it sounds like to me. __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

07-14-2002, 12:50 AM	#17
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I agree with HOBBIT. Granted, the theory of evolution suffers from much the same dilemma as any other field of study - human fallacy and subjectivity, but at least it's based on a system whereby it is tested until the hypothesis is proven to be true or false, instead of pulling out "facts" from a black tophat. And unlike ideologies, evolution is adaptable to new evidence. Some christians complain that we can't get our facts straight, and decide on a theory once and for all, but that is the beauty of both science and social science, that the theories are open to change and development. Better to incorporate new evidence into the ever-changing theory, than to ignore it in the hopes of it going away. (Although, I DO live in eternal optimism that if I ignore Emplynx he will cease to exist... ) __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 07-14-2002 at 12:52 AM.

07-14-2002, 02:20 AM	#18
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	I agree with HOBBIT and BoP. Evolution is a FACT, although the theory of exactly how it occurs can and probably will change in the future. Although you can never prove anything, there is much evidence of evolution. From the fossil record and DNA evidence it can be extrapolated that evolution is the only way to explain this event. Evolution is science and creationism is mythology (and some other names I won't mention.) I know people find it difficult to take that we are decended from apes and fish and everything else on the planet, but is the truth and it doesn't bother me. If people want to believe that creationism is the truth, fine by me, but don't teach it to kids along side evolution. __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

07-14-2002, 04:26 AM	#19
Andúril The Original Corruptor Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,881	I am of the opinion that religion should be taught at schools as an exclusive subject, perhaps comprising of theological and historical viewpoints. I would prefer to have school kids informed as to why people think and live the way they do.