08-06-2004, 05:02 PM | #1 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Animal morality: are humans merely animals?
[EDIT: This thread was split from the original Animal Rights/Dissection debate since it veered into a new direction that deserved its own thread. (And a perfect time for me to try out this splitting tool, yay.) The topic of this new thread is to discuss morals or morality in animals. -Eärniel]
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What I disagree with is the opinion that we are MERELY animals. Quote:
As I said, it's my OPINION that we are not merely animals, and I think the evidence points this way. I wanted to point out that it is also an OPINION that we ARE merely animals. Quote:
Do you think it's because of moral issues?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Earniel : 08-12-2004 at 05:37 AM. |
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08-06-2004, 05:27 PM | #2 | ||
Advocatus Diaboli
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08-06-2004, 07:34 PM | #3 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Then we have different opinions on both these points.
Oh well, at least we both like Tolkien!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-06-2004, 10:22 PM | #4 |
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Humans are animals, but I have to stand with Rian, that we have souls and other animal's (pigs, cows, lions est) do not. However, I would like to make the point that according to my religion we were put on this earth to take care of the animals and worship God. I don't think that if we were given a baby we would abuse it and kill it and send it off to a lab to be cut open and taken apart for students to look at, which, btw, the students are not doing scientific research, they are simpally doing an assighment. While we all say that it is okay to experament on animals to help the humans in some way, the question is still open: should we dissect? I think that in some cases we should, but I don't think that high school and below students should dissect, as the chances of them finding a cure to cancer while cutting open a pig is very slim. Anyways, about the baby, we wouldn't do that if it was a human baby, would we? And yet if it was a pig or cat then why not? We should value human life above animal life, yes of course, but why would we treat an animal in a way that if it were a human we would be calling abusive and cruel?
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08-06-2004, 10:37 PM | #5 | |
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08-06-2004, 10:40 PM | #6 | |
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08-08-2004, 05:19 PM | #7 | |
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i believe other animals than humans have souls too, and i believe there are other very intelligent animals too. there can be different kinds of intelligence. and if we are so very intelligent, then i'd rather see that we weren't. i do not admire the human species in any way. well, no other animal has to think if it's morally right to kill something for dinner, or care about the rainforest management; they're not the ones exterminating plants and animals.
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08-08-2004, 09:24 PM | #8 | |
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08-08-2004, 11:20 PM | #9 | |
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08-09-2004, 02:14 AM | #10 |
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Scavenging animal remains would no doubt have turned up stuff to keep 'em warm, and don't forget, they were still quite hairy at that stage, and the climate was fairly forgiving pre-glacial maximum.
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08-09-2004, 03:23 PM | #11 | |
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i admit that it's difficult to say that other animals are intelligent, since intelligence is defined by humans. EDIT: i love your sig, BoP!
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08-09-2004, 03:33 PM | #12 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-09-2004, 03:44 PM | #13 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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New Note to self - check to make sure husband's passport is valid for upcoming trip to Peru to establish new site for food and goods distribution thru Children's Hunger Fund, a charity that he is a board member on. Pick up extra socks for donation to homeless ministry. Get application in for writing letters to prisoners. Admire charitable things that other Mooters do. See if my dog wants to spend some time at the animal shelter helping out in the cat section ... um, nevermind ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-09-2004, 04:13 PM | #14 | ||
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I thoroughly agree with you on points one and two. I would like to express my disgust for the militant activists. Perspectiveless; are their emotions equally evoked by the scenes of Darfur as by watching a fly being squashed against a wall? I would sincerely hope not. It should be noted too, as so aptly was by The Now Show (God bless Radio 4), the premise taken by extremists that scientists and their families, who themselves may oppose testing, and that pensioner who was attacked for holding shares in the construction company at that Oxford site, somehow forfeit their rights is perverse. The programme correctly went on to say that the notion of people forfeiting rights as a means for the activists to circumnavigate the overt hypocrisy of their stance is typical of all terrorist organisations. Let's not pretend that the extremists are anything but terrorists. And let's not pretend that laws to grant, as I understand it, protection not available under current law but protection which is necessary, is a law which errodes civil liberties. Damn them, take my civil liberty to illegally protest, sabotage and intimidate! Quote:
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08-09-2004, 05:22 PM | #15 | |
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08-09-2004, 05:36 PM | #16 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Well, I was trying to make point in a somewhat funny manner - many of us contribute to charities and do things to help others, which, in my opinion, is something to admire. Of course, most of the world's misery is due to people's wrong choices, but there is still a lot of good things going on that can, and should be (IMO), admired.
And I was trying to remake a point that animals act only on instinct, and cannot override their instinct for "moral" reasons, while humans can. Humans are NOT merely animals, IMHO, and this opinion is strongly supported by what can be observed around us. Do you really think the human species should not be admired "in any way", or was that just kind of a generalization?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-09-2004, 06:30 PM | #17 |
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i don't know why humanity should be admired. i think the world would be a lot better without us.
and i wasn't saying humanity shouldn't be admired in any way. i just say that i don't. imo, humans are animals. there's nothing 'merely' about that. i believe it's hard for us to tell, too, if we are 'only' animals; we can't see it from another pov than ours.
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08-09-2004, 08:04 PM | #18 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 08-09-2004 at 08:08 PM. |
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08-09-2004, 08:10 PM | #19 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-10-2004, 05:02 AM | #20 |
Elf Lord
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Just a comment on the instinct thing: IIRC, there have been studies that have recorded moral behaviour in animals. For example, if you put two chimps in adjacent cages and give food to one but not the other (this is the charming sort of study that psychologists like to do), the one without food will beg for food and the other one will give it.
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