03-03-2003, 12:34 AM | #1 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
|
Could Fingolfin have bested Sauron?
Could Fingolfin have bested Sauron?
Cosidering that he gave Morgoth seven wounds that NEVER healed. Do think he could have bested the " lesser" Sauron?
__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
03-03-2003, 05:40 AM | #2 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
I think that depends on the time in which they would fight. In the age when Morgoth ruled, I think Fingolfin could have beaten Sauron in battle if the latter didn't use any of his shape-shifting tricks. But I'm not sure whether Fingolfin could have beaten Sauron when he had grown into power in the third age.
__________________
We are not things. |
03-03-2003, 06:00 AM | #3 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
Didn't Morgoth become much weaker after he had poured out lots of his power to mar Arda? IIRC even Manwë was surprised when he discovered how much Morgoth had diminished. Not that the valour of Fingolfin is lessened, Morgoth would still be an overwhelming enemy for an Elf.
Regarding Fingolfin vs. Sauron,: Sauron was strong in the Third Age, he had been a servant of Morgoth, but when Morgoth was conquered he inherited the marring, and the orcs and other foul creatures made by his former master. Still I think Fingolfin would have had a fair chance, when it comes to fighting one to one. Even Isildur managed to cut off Sauron's hand.
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. |
03-03-2003, 06:22 AM | #4 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,286
|
Hadn't Sauron already been severely wounded (if not defeated) by Elendil and Gil-galad by the time Isildur cut the ring away?
Anyways, in his duel against Morgoth, Fingolfin was extremely outmatched, because his adversary was quite a bit taller than him (and thus he was unable to deliver any mortal wounds). Sauron, on the other hand was a little closer to bite-sized, no? In regards to pure physical combat, I believe Fingolfin would have a very good chance of defeating Sauron. However, Sauron's power was more evident in his sorcery than in his combat.
__________________
"For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." - Fëanor |
03-03-2003, 10:56 AM | #5 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,870
|
Sauron was also more powerful in the second age than Morgoth was in the 1st (can't provide any quote as of yet, but I think I saw it somwhere in HoME 8 or 9).
I'm not really sure on the outcome of the match, it depends on (as has been mentioned) when it would have been fought. (Herald: "fight of the century! Come and see Fingolfin, High-King of the Noldor in a fight to death with Sauron the Abhorred, Lord of the Nine Nazgûls! Place your bets!")
__________________
Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
03-03-2003, 11:49 AM | #6 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
He WAS???? I can hardly believe that!
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
03-03-2003, 12:32 PM | #7 | |
im quite stupid
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cockermouth
Posts: 2,058
|
Quote:
Sauron Vs Fingofin wouldbe an intresting one Sauron is a bit of a crappy adversary at the end of the day he always without fail loses in one on one fight he was better at controling armys than fighting in one. Fingofin would of probably beaten sauron IMHO
__________________
Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
|
03-03-2003, 01:03 PM | #8 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Queen's
Posts: 1,245
|
No Tolkien did state somewhere (my HoME knowledge is sketchy-but I've read it) that Sauron had more power in the 2nd age then Morgoth-by the 1st age Morgoth had tied up a lot of his power in Arda after all.
__________________
"Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom" |
03-03-2003, 01:04 PM | #9 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Are we talking with the ring or without?
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
03-03-2003, 01:51 PM | #10 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,870
|
Well, he had the Ring in the second age...
__________________
Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
03-03-2003, 04:57 PM | #11 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Israel
Posts: 6,975
|
Quote:
|
|
03-03-2003, 05:03 PM | #12 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 29
|
My vote is on Fingolfin beating Sauron.
If Haun the Hound was able to defeat Sauron in the first age in single combat, I think that is quite possible for other non-maia to do it also. I don't think the One Ring increased Sauron's individual power over what he had before forging it. It added to his powers only by controlling others, which wouldn't be helpful in a one-on-one combat situation like Fingolfin had with Morgoth. I think Sauron killed Gil-Galad with a sneak attack but I will have to re-read the book to double check. |
03-03-2003, 05:21 PM | #13 | |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,870
|
Quote:
__________________
Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
|
03-04-2003, 12:03 AM | #14 |
Slacker
Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,759
|
Yeah, I think Fingolfin could have taken Sauron. If a human and one of the last elven kings could take him down, surely the elf who gave Morgoth himself a good fight could have bested him.
__________________
"If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31 |
03-04-2003, 04:24 PM | #15 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Israel
Posts: 6,975
|
Quote:
|
|
03-05-2003, 06:40 AM | #16 | |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
|
Quote:
__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
|
03-05-2003, 12:14 PM | #17 |
Sapling
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 14
|
Maybe you guys are thinking of what is said in Morgoth's Ring, Myths Transformed? I think it is in notes of movites in the Silmarillion, or perhaps elsewhere in the Melkor/Morgoth essay.
To paraphrase : "Sauron was greater, effectively, in the second age than was Morgoth at the end of the First" I am sure that it says "greater, effectively" the word "powerful" is not used in that statement, but I interpret what is said as meaning that Sauron actually was more powerful at that time. I believe that if in the same state as he was in when fighting Morgoth, that Fingolfin could have taken down Sauron at the end of the Third age. Last edited by Utumno : 03-05-2003 at 12:18 PM. |
03-06-2003, 04:12 AM | #18 | |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
|
Quote:
This suggests to me not personal might but effective as in "exerting force or influence" But the ring adds to one's power of dominion not whoopassness. So my above about effective power. But we agree Fin would win
__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
|
03-06-2003, 08:02 AM | #19 | |
im quite stupid
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cockermouth
Posts: 2,058
|
Quote:
Sauron would never of been as powerfull as Morgoth. Even Sauron wasnt the greatest fighter (wasnt his style) a balrog was probably better at acctual hyand to hand combat than sauron but this is all opinion. The fact is Saurons ability to fight wasnt great (he allways lost a point which should not be forgotten) the ring did not inhance his fighing so much is was designed simply to control the minds of his servents. Fingofin would win
__________________
Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
|
03-06-2003, 01:10 PM | #20 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Quote:
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
How to take a Ring from an unwilling Ring-wielder? - crazy ideas | Gordis | Middle Earth | 217 | 10-03-2013 03:43 PM |
Were the Nazgul free from Sauron for the most part of the Third Age? | Gordis | Middle Earth | 141 | 07-09-2006 07:16 PM |
Who is the Mouth of Sauron? | Maedhros | Lord of the Rings Books | 11 | 09-15-2003 02:43 PM |
The Rings Of Power | zavron | Middle Earth | 14 | 01-08-2003 02:41 PM |
Sauron | Dark Lord Sauron | The Silmarillion | 4 | 01-07-2003 11:53 PM |