01-10-2006, 11:26 AM | #1 | |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
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Why Merry?
As you know, Merry (and Eowyn) killed the Witch-King.
But I have just remembered something... In the Barrow-Downs, after being rescued by Tom, it was MERRY who had the following dream: Quote:
No other hobbit, but Merry, had a similar dream! And it was precisely Merry who killed the Witch-King, though all the four of the hobbits have got the Barrow-blades, potent against the Witch-King. Do you think it is a simple co-incidence? |
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01-10-2006, 11:32 AM | #2 | ||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
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never thought of that before, hmm I'll have to think about that one.
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01-10-2006, 11:50 AM | #3 |
Elf Lord
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Could be just a coincidence.
However, Merry is far less naive than the rest of the hobbits at the start of the tale, and perhaps knows more about the outside world even than Frodo. You'll recall it is he who leads them into the Old Forest. Again, there's the bit (and what a tremendous bit it is) after Merry sticks it to the Witch-King about how he who made the blade would be happy to know its fate, as if the revenge of the Dunedain he had slain reached across the centuries to strike the Witch-King down. Given that, it's probably no coincidence that Merry was given these lines. Last edited by The Gaffer : 01-10-2006 at 11:57 AM. |
01-10-2006, 12:06 PM | #4 |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
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Perhaps the one who has made the blade was the same one who got killed by the spear in his heart in Merry's dream?
Then it looks like he has chosen Merry as a tool for his vengeance. By the way, what was his spirit doing in the Barrow-Downs? Was it trapped there by the Witch-King's sorcery? Or has he become a Barrow-Wight? |
01-10-2006, 01:47 PM | #5 |
Elf Lord
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The swords themselves were made in Numenor, presumably during the Second Age prior to the Witch-King inhabiting Angmar. So whoever made them had nothing specifically to do with Arnor, but would have been involved in wars against Mordor.
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01-10-2006, 02:13 PM | #6 | |
Sapling
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I though the swords were made specifically for the war against the Witch- King of Angmar.
Quote:
After the great plague 1636 most of the surviving Cardolans perished which left the Barrows unattended. That is when the Witch-King sent evil spirits to inhabit the barrows. The spirits were then known as Barrow-Wrights. |
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01-10-2006, 02:14 PM | #7 | ||||
Lady of the Ulairi
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Very interesting, CS and The Gaffer!
Quote:
"Get out, you old Wight! Vanish in the sunlight!" And Merry had his dream AFTER the wight had departed. More likely, there was another unhappy bodiless fëa trapped in the barrow. What kept it from going to Mandos? Maybe sorcery, maybe desire for vengeance. I think the latter, so, indeed, Merry was chosen as a tool to avenge the Witch-King. And Tom felt something, as he has given the hobbits special blades. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
However the technology might indeed have come from the Second age Numenor. |
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01-10-2006, 05:10 PM | #8 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Nice theory CS.
I agree with Gor, apart from the bit about Tom feeling something special about the blades and giving them to the hobbits. The hobbits chose the blades from the Barrow, just as Tom chose the green brooch for Goldberry, Tom just approved of their choices. Nazgûl Princess, IIRC they were made for the War against the Witch King, and wrought with spells for the bane of all evil, which is why Ugluk threw away the swords of Merry and Pippin whe they were captured.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
01-10-2006, 05:30 PM | #9 | ||
Lady of the Ulairi
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Quote:
Quote:
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01-11-2006, 05:21 AM | #10 |
Elf Lord
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I stand corrected. I had taken "Men of Westernesse" to mean men who lived in Numenor.
Excellent quotes; thanks. (My copies of LOTR are sadly depleted: FOTR falling to bits and ROTK lost). I don't think we need to have some sort of fea hanging around in the barrow, though. There are visions a-plenty in and around Tom's lands. I would think of Merry acting as an instrument of their revenge in a metaphorical way, though groovy nonetheless. |
01-11-2006, 07:54 AM | #11 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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No problem, the Gaffer, no one can remember all the LORT by heart. I had to check the quotes myself, though it is one of my fav. topics.
I agree, there were visions aplenty in Tom's realm. But: As for me, I feel that there must have been the unquiet spirit of the killed Dunadan there in the Barrows. Merry definitely acted, as if he was possessed for a short time. Perhaps this man has sworn by Eru to find no peace before he avenged the Witch King for destroying his people, or something... That would account for his spirit not going to Mandos and beyond, but remaining in ME. Much like the Dead men of Dunharrow kept in ME by the unfulfilled oath. Pure conjecture, of course... |
01-11-2006, 03:36 PM | #12 |
Alasailon
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Never thought about it all that much. But I suppose I generally agree with what's being said. My own interpretation is that Merry was the most "worldy" of the four hobbits, and so the one least ruled by superstition. I'm not sure how that connects to the stabbing of the Witch-King, but I always thought of it as Merry being the least convinced of the Witch-King's immortality. Not a very strong argument I know but at least Merry was unconvinced enough to try stabbing him. I don't think any of the other Hobbits would have more readily done that than Merry.
/edit: bah. That came out kinda stupid. What I mean is that Merry felt like he had to try something or anything. It was still a desperation move but the sensible Hobbit in him must have felt that it was better than doing nothing.
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"and then this hobbit was walking, and then this elf jumped out of a bush and totally flipped out on him while wailing on his guitar." "Anglorfin was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of anger; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was great skill." Last edited by Anglorfin : 01-11-2006 at 03:38 PM. |
01-11-2006, 05:34 PM | #13 | |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
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Quote:
I think Merry had no idea what the WK was in truth, mortal or immortal, he just tried to save Eowyn. The same way as Sam had no idea of Shelob's nature when he attacked her, he only wanted to save Frodo. I don't think Merry ever hoped to kill the WK, he only did what he could. But what do you think, Merry heaving the dream in the Barrow Downs and Merry killing the WK, was it a coincidence or not? |
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01-11-2006, 06:06 PM | #14 | |
Alasailon
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Quote:
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"and then this hobbit was walking, and then this elf jumped out of a bush and totally flipped out on him while wailing on his guitar." "Anglorfin was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of anger; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was great skill." |
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01-11-2006, 09:10 PM | #15 | |
Elven Warrior
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