09-01-2004, 08:56 PM | #1 |
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Glorfindel's Prophecy
Was the witch king prophecy open to all women and non men or was it exclusive to Merry and Eowyn. Meaning was the prophecy No man can kill the witch-king or no man will kill the witch king. I thinkit is the second because prophecies are usually exclusive to one set oif circumstances. But thats just my opinion
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09-02-2004, 02:03 AM | #2 |
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We've got this already in the other thread so we'd just be repeatig ourselves.
Edit it to make it about the WK's prophercy.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 Last edited by Telcontar_Dunedain : 09-02-2004 at 02:05 AM. |
09-02-2004, 09:25 AM | #3 | |
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I made the title change. I don't think that Glorfindel was saying that it was impossible for a man to kill the Witch-King. I think he had a glimpse or flash of insight to the WK's doom - and was speaking about what he knew was going to happen. Or possibly, he was 'given' the words by Eru or the Valar... and didn't even understand himself how they would be fulfilled.
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09-02-2004, 09:28 AM | #4 |
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I have suspected that many of the more specific parts of prophey were simply added by lateer authors after the event, to embelish the tale.
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09-02-2004, 09:44 AM | #5 | |
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It IS interesting that the WK repeats the prophecy to Eowyn... either he had very good hearing, while in flight (and took Glorfindel's words to heart) - or his spies discovered the words (assuming they WERE actually spoken ), and reported them back to him. Unless... it was someone ELSE who made the prophecy (help me out here Olmer! )... someone on the DARK side!
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09-02-2004, 10:22 AM | #6 | |
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09-02-2004, 10:23 AM | #7 |
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elves always seemed to have the power to glimpse into the music of the ainur... maybe a side-effect from their time in valinor... and glorfindel made two trips... in some ways, i've always wondered why he was sent back... maybe his 'prophecy' was part of the role eru meant him to play
would the witch-king have been so careless about watching his back if not for glorfindel's words?
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09-02-2004, 01:47 PM | #8 |
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Maybe he took the words to seriously and thought that no man could wound him.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
09-02-2004, 02:07 PM | #9 | |
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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09-02-2004, 04:46 PM | #10 |
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I very much like the idea that Glorfindel may have 'glimpsed' the demise of the Witch-King by Eówyn's hand. I hadn't thought about that this way before. (Of course that would imply that every thing that happened in LoTR was pre-ordained and had to happen but that's another discussion entirely.) It could explain why Glorfindel himself made little or no effort to destroy the Witch-King after wards, he knew the Witch-King of Angmar had it coming sooner or later.
The Witch-King must have heard of Glorfindel's words but probably never understood their meaning completely until it was too late. Kind of ironic, here he was thinking himself completely safe, protected as it were by the words of a powerful Elf-lord and then some lass comes along who probably never heard or knew about the prophecy and she turns the words (and tables) on him already in the very first minute of battle! What I wonder about is what hot-headed King Eärnur must have thought if he ever found out that a woman, not even from the line of Isildur, destroyed his arch-enemy.
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09-02-2004, 04:50 PM | #11 | |
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09-02-2004, 10:35 PM | #12 |
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Hey I was able to change the title. And I always believed that prophecies wouldnt come tru unless yu prophesized about them. Meaning the Witch-King wouldnt have been so recless had the prophecy never been made. So prophecies fulfill themselves.
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09-03-2004, 10:12 AM | #13 | |
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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09-04-2004, 01:52 PM | #14 |
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Well I wouldn't really call what Galadriel's mirror sees as prophercies. Prophercies do come tru, no matter what, what the mirror showed is what could come true.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
09-04-2004, 05:23 PM | #15 | |
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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09-05-2004, 02:19 AM | #16 |
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But were they prophercies. It was thing that were, things that are and things that have not yet come to pass. With those the viewer could change the course of events. They were only possibilities.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
09-05-2004, 11:50 AM | #17 | |
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1. An inspired utterance of a prophet, viewed as a revelation of divine will. 2. A prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration. 3. Such an inspired message or prediction transmitted orally or in writing. 4. The vocation or condition of a prophet. 5. A prediction. The visions of the mirror definitely fall under #5, and possibly#1 and #2.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. Last edited by Attalus : 09-05-2004 at 11:51 AM. |
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09-05-2004, 01:44 PM | #18 |
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I don't think that Tolkien meant it to be interpreted like that. Never was prophecy actuaaly said in LotR. Tolkien reffered to it tham as forsight.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
09-05-2004, 05:27 PM | #19 |
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Also from Dictionary.com:
foresight: 1. Perception of the significance and nature of events before they have occurred. 2. Care in providing for the future; prudence. See Synonyms at prudence. 3. The act of looking forward. #3 would seem to be a synonym of "prophecy," that is, #5, a prediction.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
09-06-2004, 01:58 AM | #20 |
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Okay. I give in.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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