Historical Trivia

[Janny]

Yup. I will be returning to school tomorrow and period two will once more have lessons with the poor lady some unaffectionately refer to as the banshee (not me you understand, I have no grudge, she has never called me 'Flossey').
History becomes bearable only for its little anecdotes, intrigues and down right stupidities.
Any one have any favourites...
Mine rest currently with how the US won backing from the UN for the Korean War. By all accounts I know, the only country with veto in the security council who would have voted against it was the soviet union...
They, apparently, boycotted in a strop the meeting in which they would have vetod the motion. And thus the UN backed the invasion of the country.

[Twista]

How is this Trivia? lol

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Is this thread a discussion of trivia or a trivia game thread?
Either way could be interesting SINCE I LIKE HISTORY SO MUCH I MAJORED IN IT IN COLLEGE (had to, I failed a science math course and history was easier, and more fun.)

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Twista
How is this Trivia? lol

Not sure.

[Nurvingiel]

Every country has darker moments in their history. Canada for example, hasn't always been the true north strong and free.

During World War II, thousands of Japanese-Canadians were imprisoned, and their land was stolen from them, mostly in BC. This isn't talked about much here, we're quite ashamed of it. It was terrible, paranoid, and racist.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
During World War II, thousands of Japanese-Canadians were imprisoned, and their land was stolen from them, mostly in BC. This isn't talked about much here, we're quite ashamed of it. It was terrible, paranoid, and racist.

I guess we look at our dark history a little bit more. The US did the same thing to both the japanese and the Germans (the germans aren't talked about much though) - but we are building a museum and national park in California where one of the camps was, to honor and remember the people who were there.

[Nurvingiel]

Yes, I think it's good to do that. It's not focusing on the negative, but more like apologizing to the people wronged, and acknowledging what they went through. (We may have something similar for Japanese-Candians, I just don't know.)

One dark period we do look at, and are making reparations for, is when Native children were forced to attend residential schools. That was awful too, but we're attempting to make up for it. (You can never really make up for something like that.)

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Hmm! I never knew that Canadians were also so "over the top" in fear of citizens of Japanese ancestry in W.W. II.
Interestingly, in the U.S. internment calls didn't immediately begin.

"Curiously, no clamor for wholesale reprisals against the mainland Japanese arose in the immediate aftermath of the Pearl Harbor attack. The Los Angeles Times soberly editorialized on December 8 that most of the Japanese on the Coast were 'good Americans, born and educated as such'.....General John L. DeWitt, chief of the army's Western Defense Command, at first dismissed loose talk of mass evacuations as 'damned nonsense.'
A decisive change came when a late January government report (prepared by Supreme Court Justice Roberts) alleged without proof "that Hawaii-based espionage agents, including Japanese-American citizens, had abetted Nagumo's strike force."

From
Freedom from Fear: The American People in Depression and War, 1929-1945, by David M. Kennedy.

[Nurvingiel]

We didn't do it immediately either, but it was still bad.

[BeardofPants]

Hone Heke

Notable maori warrior who persistently went around cutting down British flagpoles during the First Maori War skirmishes.

[gollum9630]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Yes, I think it's good to do that. It's not focusing on the negative, but more like apologizing to the people wronged, and acknowledging what they went through. (We may have something similar for Japanese-Candians, I just don't know.)

One dark period we do look at, and are making reparations for, is when Native children were forced to attend residential schools. That was awful too, but we're attempting to make up for it. (You can never really make up for something like that.)

interestingly enough i am jsut learning about this in my socials studies class right now. canada has actually had some pretty racist policies like the continuos passage law and the head tax on asians

I guess we look at our dark history a little bit more. The US did the same thing to both the japanese and the Germans (the germans aren't talked about much though) - but we are building a museum and national park in California where one of the camps was, to honor and remember the people who were there.

canada did the same thing but eventually freed them because we needed farmers.

[Nariel]

I have lots of amusing historical facts which I could share, but currently, I'm a little preoccupied with modern US history. On old family friend once told me this story:

In the early 1940s, she was living in Hawaii, on the base at Pearl Harbor, to be exact. When she saw several fighters flying over one day, she noted the stars on the underside of the wings and waved at her fellow countrymen. It was stunning to her, however, that the fighters started bombing their own ships.
It turns out that the Japanese general put in charge of organizing the attack on Pearl Harbor was actaully educated and trained here in the States. He knew our symbols, and therefore had his fighters paint the US stars on the undersides of their wings instead of the rising sun. This in itself is an act of war, but I don't think they minded, considering they were in the process of sinking the US fleet.
My favorite part of this story is that the USS Yorktown was crippled three times during the ensuing sea battles, but always made it home okay. Not long after, it sank in harbor while undergoing repairs.
And while the Japanese were holding a gigantic celebration for their defeat of the US fleet, one of the petty officers made his way into the General's office, to ask him if he was going to join the party. The General had his head down on his desk and, when the officer arrived, raised it and said one very memorable phrase: "I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant."

Someday I'll recount for you the entire story of Pearl Harbor as told by my high school Physics teacher, one of the best storytellers in the world.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Janny
Mine rest currently with how the US won backing from the UN for the Korean War. By all accounts I know, the only country with veto in the security council who would have voted against it was the soviet union...
They, apparently, boycotted in a strop the meeting in which they would have vetod the motion. And thus the UN backed the invasion of the country.

Reminds me of my favourite Mussolini story (how many do I have, you may well ask...):

The Italian Parliament didn't like Mussolini being PM, so they walked out in protest. While they weren't looking, he promptly abolished the Parliament. Smart

[Janny]

Didn't explain well did I?
Nariel and Sun-Star got the idea. Just interesting historical points such as the US stars on the wing undersides. Keep it lighter than persecution though. But if that's your taste...
Stalin wanted Trotsky killed bad. So, he sent someone to follow Trotsky to Mexico, where he had set up a new life with his family et al. The agent befriended Trotsky and was invted to dinner etc. Despite the friendship, the agent followed Trotsky to his library one day in 1940 (what 16 years afterhe left the Soviet political scene) and killed him while his back was turned... with an ice pick
Of course the agent was greeted cheerfully by a delighted Stalin in his usual style. That is he was executed... Stalin 'never ordered' any assassination

So Nariel, is this thing about US aircraft carriers being conveniently out of port during Pearl Habour accepted or the delusional babblings of an old history teacher?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Janny
So Nariel, is this thing about US aircraft carriers being conveniently out of port during Pearl Habour accepted or the delusional babblings of an old history teacher?
______________________________-
Answer: It's delusional babblings.
Actually, it's the delusions of pathetic Republican right wingers from the 1940s and on, on the order of their passing an amendment barring third terms for presidents (apparently in the fear that Democrats would dig up FDR's body and have him run for office again). It's an old ploy of Republican ideologues to try something like silly rumors of a conspiracy to have the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor or "giving away" Eastern Europe after WWII (like the Red Army was going to leave after losing 20,000,000 people in the war and having a much bigger army then the Anglo-Americans and the allies rapidly demobilizing their armies. Historians (even conservative ones like John Keegan) find no reason to buy Republican Party WWII conspiracy theories.

P. S. I belive the U.S.S. Yorktown was sunk at the Battle of Midway, not in a harbor.

[Janny]

Hmm... I wouldn't blame everything on Republicans. This was perpetuated by, well, teachers... good ol' Red Flag singing, Guardian reading lefties. Not to lable!
They weren't very 'oh and man didn't land on the moon either' about it. It just seems like the kinda thing governments might conceivably do. Or maybe I just want to see something deeper in Pearl Habour after the hour 3 hour film debacle. That was awful .

[The Gaffer]

A governor of one of the early British colonies in America (well before 1776) described a novel and effective execution method: the condemned was fired from a cannon.

The governor reported that one of the advantages of the method was that there was no need to dispose of a body.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Janny
maybe I just want to see something deeper in Pearl Habour after the hour 3 hour film debacle. That was awful .
____________________________
100 % correct. Part of the trend towards Hollywood's tendency to twist and/or trivialize history. For example, the 1970s movie Midway had love interests but was essentially accurate, and the romance was secondary (albeit rather unbelievable- Japanese-American girl interned, her boyfriend has dad (Chuck Heston) get her out, but by that time dad is dead and boyfriend wounded) Agh! Then by 1990s Pearl Harbor was essentially love interest with little, and inaccurate history interwoven.
I hate to even think what the British think of the "history" in Mel Gibson's The Patriot" and the submarine Ultra movie. (I found them most embarassing, and unneccesary. They're fascinating tales without rewriting history).
Oh, and in Pearl Harbor you knew the pilot wasn't dead, since they didn't show his body, just the plane sinking.
_____________________________

Trivia: Is it known outside U.S. that Ben Franklin wanted the wild turkey, not the Bald Eagle, as the national bird? Really a good choice, the wild, as opposed to Thanksgiving domestic, turkey is a mean, kick-ass bird.

[Nurvingiel]

I think I knew that actually. That would have been a good national bird, wild turkeys, unlike their domesticated cousins, are intelligent and not to be messed with.

Golden eagles have good connotations as well though. They are very Roman, and I believe the Romans used them as a symbol. This has led to them being associated with honour and nobility.

Funny how we often ascribe human values to animals.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
I hate to even think what the British think of the "history" in Mel Gibson's The Patriot" and the submarine Ultra movie. (I found them most embarassing, and unneccesary. They're fascinating tales without rewriting history).

Trivia: Is it known outside U.S. that Ben Franklin wanted the wild turkey, not the Bald Eagle, as the national bird? Really a good choice, the wild, as opposed to Thanksgiving domestic, turkey is a mean, kick-ass bird.

Yes, I heard that somewhere. It makes sense really if it's a wild turkey, but think about all the jokes you'd have been opening youselves up to! I wonder if the U.S. would be the country it is today if people were calling it "the nation of the turkey" all the time

Never, never speak of "The Patriot" in my hearing :shudder: The British always come out badly in American movies, but that was just - I hear "U571" (is that the title?) was historically bad too, but I haven't seen it. I did, however, watch Pearl Harbor - and promptly wished I hadn't