Range of the Nazgul

Keith K · 12-04-2002, 12:35 AM

In another thread we were discussing the perception of Gandalf. He was able to percieve far off events. In a similar vein, I was wondering if the Nazgul had a certain range whereby they could percieve the Ring (or any display of power for that matter). It is said that the Ring drew them, but how close do y'all think that they would need to be to discover it. It was right under their nose in the Shire, yet the hobbits got away. Then they were drawn to Bree. Was it because it was used in Bree? Or out in the Wild, they tracked the Ring to Weathertop...and from there to the Ford. The Witch-King got a twitch outside of Minas Morgul, but didn't understand what was afoot in his own backyard. Maybe the hobbits managed to keep upwind or something.

***RÃan*** · 12-04-2002, 01:14 PM

The title of this thread made me think of gas mileage, for some strange reason.... or hay mileage .... "this model Black Rider horse gets 100 miles per hay bale on the Road to Bree, and 75 miles per hay bale on the Old Forest Road..."

Have you read "The Hunt for the Ring" (Part 3, chpt. 4) in Unfinished Tales? That has some interesting extra info about Black Riders. In the notes, it explains the Ringwraiths' fear of water, which was never really made clear in LoTR. Somewhere it says in there that they actually entered the river, despite their fear, because the ring was right before them (when Frodo defied them at the Ford). Also, JRRT says of Khamul, the rider seen on the far side of the Buckleberry Ferry just after the Hobbits crossed, that:

Quote:

he was well aware that the Ring had crossed the river; but the river was a barrier to his sense of its movement

Dunadan · 12-04-2002, 01:48 PM

There's also something in FOTR about us "casting shadows in their minds".

I've often wondered about this, too. Also about whether they instantly know what Sauron knows, and vice versa, or is there a time delay. In TTT, Gandalf says the Nazgul which flies overhead just after Pippin looks in the Palantir couldn't know about Pippin yet, which gave them a few hours (until a Nazgul flew from Mordor to Isengard) before he found out the stone had been nicked.

Potential spoler if you've not read the ROTK:

Yet, at the Battle of the Morannon, they seem instantly aware when Frodo claimed ownership of the ring and responded instantly to Sauron's command.

Agburanar · 12-05-2002, 06:28 AM

I always thought that the Nazgul's powers were intertwined with Sauron's. That's why Gandalf was able to defeat the riders at Weathertop but the witch king alone was able to confront him at Minas Tirith. Thus as extensions of Sauron's perception they would have grown more powerful as the dark lord did.

Ma Uai: Ua Nemti · 12-07-2002, 11:44 PM

For the most part I agree with Agburanar.

I've always thought of it this way: Their perception of the ring is like smell. They can tell the general direction to move to get closer to it. The closer they get the stronger the "scent." But with the barer uses the ring, it's like all senses are turned on. They can see the bearer as well as "smell" the direction to move.

Keith K · 12-09-2002, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RÃ*an
The title of this thread made me think of gas mileage, for some strange reason.... or hay mileage .... "this model Black Rider horse gets 100 miles per hay bale on the Road to Bree, and 75 miles per hay bale on the Old Forest Road..."

Actually this thread concerns major appliances in the Nazgul's kitchen! jk!
Seriously I wish to thank those who replied. Ma Uai: Ua Nemti, Agburanar, Dunadan, and Rian; all of you made good points and I am closer to understanding the Nazgul's perception. Thanks again!

***RÃan*** · 12-09-2002, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith K
Actually this thread concerns major appliances in the Nazgul's kitchen! jk!
Seriously I wish to thank those who replied. Ma Uai: Ua Nemti, Agburanar, Dunadan, and Rian; all of you made good points and I am closer to understanding the Nazgul's perception. Thanks again!

I saw a really funny t-shirt once, I wish I had bought it - the words on it were "cowboys on the range", and the picture was of these tiny little cowboys on top of a stove, toasting little marshmallows over the burner fire!

You're welcome

Keith K · 12-09-2002, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RÃ*an
I saw a really funny t-shirt once, I wish I had bought it - the words on it were "cowboys on the range", and the picture was of these tiny little cowboys on top of a stove, toasting little marshmallows over the burner fire!

Sounds like a Larson cartoon (The Far Side). Those are hilarious.
The T-shirt for this thread should have Khamul baking a pie. Or perhaps the Witch-King roasting Gollum on a top burner!

Insidious Rex · 01-21-2003, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dunadan
There's also something in FOTR about us "casting shadows in their minds".

I've often wondered about this, too. Also about whether they instantly know what Sauron knows, and vice versa, or is there a time delay.

Yes are they telepathically in touch at all times? I have always been under the assumption that Sauron when he tunes into them can read their thoughts basically. And when he realizes frodo is about to throw the ring into Mt. Doom he immediatly recalls all the Nazgul by telepathy so there must be some direct mind to mind connection there.

congressmn · 01-21-2003, 01:23 PM

Well this is my theory on being clairvoyant.

A person may have a range as great as Gandalf. but if he is evil
than he wudnt ever realize his true potential

the same goes for my Math teacher( evil man he is)

DÃºnedain · 01-21-2003, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ma Uai: Ua Nemti
I've always thought of it this way: Their perception of the ring is like smell. They can tell the general direction to move to get closer to it. The closer they get the stronger the "scent." But with the barer uses the ring, it's like all senses are turned on. They can see the bearer as well as "smell" the direction to move.

Yeah I agree with this totally, except for the spelling & grammar mistakes

I also think that the it goes a little beyond that though. Remember the Nazgul once possessed rings themselves, however their minds/souls were corrupted by Sauron and they became wraiths. So basically they are alive in the demonic world so to speak, in tune with the ring. With that, they are in essence an entity one with Sauron and part of the ring themselves. I think that it isn't so much Sauron sending telepathy to them, I think they feel the ring themselves as they are wraiths under the dominion of the ring itself, which would explain their quick reactions to the ring being put on,

especially when Frodo is at Mount Doom.....

Keith K · 01-21-2003, 11:33 PM

I agree with those points about seeing and smelling, but I was also wondering how far away the Ringwraiths could be and still detect the ring. The Nazgul weren't actually in Bree when Frodo put on the ring at the inn. Yet they showed up shortly thereafter. Did they sense the use of power however inadvertant, or did they find out through their spies? I believe that not all the spies in Bree were in the employ of Saruman.

12-04-2002, 12:35 AM	#1
Keith K Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: charlotte, n.c. Posts: 1,081	Range of the Nazgul In another thread we were discussing the perception of Gandalf. He was able to percieve far off events. In a similar vein, I was wondering if the Nazgul had a certain range whereby they could percieve the Ring (or any display of power for that matter). It is said that the Ring drew them, but how close do y'all think that they would need to be to discover it. It was right under their nose in the Shire, yet the hobbits got away. Then they were drawn to Bree. Was it because it was used in Bree? Or out in the Wild, they tracked the Ring to Weathertop...and from there to the Ford. The Witch-King got a twitch outside of Minas Morgul, but didn't understand what was afoot in his own backyard. Maybe the hobbits managed to keep upwind or something.

12-05-2002, 06:28 AM	#4
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	I always thought that the Nazgul's powers were intertwined with Sauron's. That's why Gandalf was able to defeat the riders at Weathertop but the witch king alone was able to confront him at Minas Tirith. Thus as extensions of Sauron's perception they would have grown more powerful as the dark lord did. __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

12-07-2002, 11:44 PM	#5
Ma Uai: Ua Nemti Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: We'd tell you but you're all out to get us. Posts: 215	For the most part I agree with Agburanar. I've always thought of it this way: Their perception of the ring is like smell. They can tell the general direction to move to get closer to it. The closer they get the stronger the "scent." But with the barer uses the ring, it's like all senses are turned on. They can see the bearer as well as "smell" the direction to move. __________________ Pharoah "Vires decusque."

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01-21-2003, 01:23 PM	#10
congressmn Incharge: neighbourhood security Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: on my 499th post Posts: 481	Well this is my theory on being clairvoyant. A person may have a range as great as Gandalf. but if he is evil than he wudnt ever realize his true potential the same goes for my Math teacher( evil man he is)

01-21-2003, 11:33 PM	#12
Keith K Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: charlotte, n.c. Posts: 1,081	I agree with those points about seeing and smelling, but I was also wondering how far away the Ringwraiths could be and still detect the ring. The Nazgul weren't actually in Bree when Frodo put on the ring at the inn. Yet they showed up shortly thereafter. Did they sense the use of power however inadvertant, or did they find out through their spies? I believe that not all the spies in Bree were in the employ of Saruman.