|
FAQ | Members List | Calendar |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
05-23-2003, 05:04 PM | #1 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
|
The Silmarillion, Chapter 8: Of the Darkening of Valinor
The Silmarillion - Chapter 8, "Of the Darkening of Valinor."
This is a rather short chapter in the published Silmarillion: only 5 pages. When I first reread it for the purpose of writing this Introduction, I had read the earlier accounts in HoME 4Shaping Middle-Earth and had not seen much change. Melkor flees from his encounter with Feanor, his perfidy exposed and the Valar on his tail. He feints North, and Orome and Tulkas search in the area of his former fastnesses of Utumno and Angband, but do not find him. Actually, he has gone South, to the land of "Avanthar, which means the Shadows in ancient Quenya." (HoME X, p. 284, footnote) He recruits Ungoliant, who is described in the Sil as a giant spider. "The Eldar knew not whence she came; but some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies about Arda, when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwe, and in the beginning she was one of those whom he corrupted to his service. But she had disowned her master...." It is also noted that "she hungered for light and hated it." Morgoth locates her and persuades her to join him again, offering satisfaction for her hunger. So far, so good. However, HoME X adds much to this story, including detail about how Melkor convinced Ungoliant to join him, including how initially she hid from him, "knowing his hatred for all who had escaped from him." She shrank into her deepest lair, trying to weave a new shadow about her, but she was weak and famished, having consumed all available light, and was unable to hide. He heaps scorn on her, calling her "thrice fool," and tells her of feasts that he will give her. She is not convinced, not believing him, (smart!) and retreating further. Melkor loses his temper and threatens to pull the whole mountain down upon her if she persists in resisting, and, as a counter-argument, offers her two green, glowing jewels filched from Valinor as payment in earnest of what is to come. She relents and eats the gems and others, and grows strong again. In both accounts, Melkor and Ungoliant both steal back into Valinor and poison the Two Trees, but the accounts in the Sil and X diverge, here. In the Sil, Ungoliant sucks the sap and light from the Trees, then Melkor delivers the coup de grace with his spear. In HoME X, Ungoliant kills the trees by herself, while Melkor, like a spoiled child, broods over Ulmo's Sea, defiles the Judgement Seat of Manwe and tips over the Thrones of the Valar. He then flees North, and dark falls upon the land. This remarkable change is explained by Christopher Tolkien as to allow Melkor to try to keep Ungoliant as far as possible from the Silmarils, since she would lust after them, and she had grown very powerful. In the the new version, Melkor would use the darkness as a cloak to steal north to Formenos, where the Silmarils remain, under guard of Finwe and the seven sons of Feanor, for they had not followed Feanor to the Festival where all the rest of the Noldor and Vanyar were partying with the Valar. HoME X adds some pretty detail of this Festival, but the basic facts remain: Feanor was there, on orders from Manwe, but he is still sulking, and hasn't dressed up and hasn't got the Silmarils. Manwe tries to reconcile Feanor and Fingolfin, with good will on Fingolfin's part, and he (Fingolfin) says, "You will lead, and I will follow," not knowing how true his words will be. However, despite Melkor's plot to stand her up, Ungoliant "turns swiftly" and follows him. In either case, Melkor has achieved his revenge. Comments: First: all this begs the question of: where the heck did Ungoliant come from? This, I think, attaches to the much larger question of the origins of the Dragons and the Trolls, and even the sacred topic of the origins of Orcs. The answer, IMHO, is that Tolkien put various monsters into his tale, not thinking deeply about it at the time, and later trying to come up with origins that satisfyed his cosmology. Secondly, though HoME X adds that Melkor had timed all of this in advance, how on Arda could he have known that Feanor wouldn't wear the Silmarils to the Festival? He couldn't have been that prescient, and if Feanaro had been a little more gracious, Melkor would have been foiled, having poisoned the Two Trees but having lost the jewels he lusted for. The answer is, Melkor knew nothing of the depths of Feanor's sulks, but expected him to boycott the Festival altogether, so he could kill him and take the jewels.
__________________
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
05-23-2003, 05:07 PM | #2 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Re: The Silmarillion, Chapter 8: Of the Darkening of Valinor
Quote:
|
|
05-23-2003, 06:49 PM | #3 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
|
I really don't have a problem with Ungoliant being a Maia, but I really don't think that every time that a new creature pops up (trolls, dragons, etc.) that we can just nod sagely and think, "uh, huh, there's another maia!"
__________________
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
05-23-2003, 06:52 PM | #4 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
Re: The Silmarillion, Chapter 8: Of the Darkening of Valinor
Good work, Attalus!
Quote:
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. |
|
05-23-2003, 06:54 PM | #5 |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
|
I think Melkor could have had a strong suspicion that Feanor would not be wearing the Silmarils to the festival. After what happened when Feanor slammed his door in Melkor's face. Melkor probably knew that Feanor would be extreamly bent now on keeping the Silmarils safe, so would most likely keep them at Formenos.
__________________
"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
05-23-2003, 06:58 PM | #6 |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
|
Oh, and a big thank you to Attalus for taking on the re-assignment of this chapter. Well done Attalus.
__________________
"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
05-23-2003, 09:53 PM | #7 |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 856
|
Likely she was an Ainur who have found her own path to corruption and fall without Melkor. Possibly before she came to Arda, since the Elvish legend is that she came in that form out of the void. Recall that Melkor had begun to corrupt hiself in the void before the music of the Ainur. Tulkas came to Arda sometime after its initial creation. Many others may have done so. They technically not be Maiar, since that refers to thoses that has served one of the Valar. They would just be Ainur.
__________________
Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 05-23-2003 at 09:57 PM. |
05-23-2003, 11:07 PM | #8 | |
Long lost mooter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,342
|
Re: The Silmarillion, Chapter 8: Of the Darkening of Valinor
Quote:
Regarding Ungoliant, it almost felt like she was already there, and perhaps Melkor drew out of her what she became. I asked before regarding dragons whether he could bestow intellegence on creatures even if he could not give them life himself. But she seems much to evil and out of control, so I don't know. She seems "simple" to me, in her lust for light she doesn't seem to ponder or plot or have a lot of intellectual depth, she is very animalistic. If she is a Maia or some such, could this be due to her chosen form (choosing an animal form, esp. one so far down on the taxonomic scale, has the result of power, but a dumbing down, as it were, similar to the Istari being limited in their bodily forms)? OR is it the other way around: did her divine personality dictate what form she'd take? Tolkien "working backwards" in terms of the creation of the different creatures certainly caused problems (that isn't a complaint, I'm so glad he created the characters to cause these problems!), mainly because of his own need to make everything "scientific." We as readers get so used to there being an explanation that we feel the need to question the origin of everything we come across, because we feel there must be one since everything else has been explained so thoroughly (me as much as anyone!), and when it isn't we flounder a little in the face of vagueness (I have no idea if that's really a word or not, but it's all I can muster at this point ). That's why I agree w/ Attalus, that he created things for his world that defied explanation: there could be none or it would create problems in terms of his "science," so it was vague. And that's fine with me, because it's all the more fun to think about. It leaves some flexibility for the reader's imagination, and allows everyone have his own theories. |
|
05-28-2003, 05:20 PM | #9 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
It says that Fëanor and Fingolfin were reconciled in words. I wondered if that meant not fully in hearts. I doubt if Fëanor would put at naught their previous rivalry, and his humiliation in the Ring of Doom.
And why didn't the Valar lift the doom that was laid upon him, now that he was reconciled with his brother? OK, it seems like the twelve years of banishment was not yet over, but why then urge the reconciliation?
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. |
05-30-2003, 03:14 PM | #10 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
|
I suspect Manwe was trying to pour oil on the troubled waters, perhaps bring Fëanor back within the fold so that his great talents would not be lost. Too little, too late, unfortunately.
__________________
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
05-31-2003, 04:09 PM | #11 | |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Middle of Germany
Posts: 87
|
Re: The Silmarillion, Chapter 8: Of the Darkening of Valinor
First of all, thank you,Attalus, for the re-assignment of this chapter. So Newbies ,like me, don't have to search in the deep places of the board.
Quote:
And that Melkor used that knowledge. But what I never understood is, how easily he got the Silmarils. I mean they were locked in Formenos, under guard of Finwe and Fëanor's sons. And Ungoliant, maybe she was a Maiar, but she could also be a old creature of Melkor. I guess, we can't have always answers.
__________________
Finarwë *********************** A! Elbereth Gilthoniel! silivren penna m?*riel o menel aglar elenath, Gilthoniel, A! Elbereth! |
|
05-31-2003, 04:21 PM | #12 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
|
You are quite welcome, Finarwë. I enjoyed the assignment, having to read those books that I have but never read. Yes, it says expicitly that Fëanor "grudged the sight of [the Silmarils] to any but his sire and his" near kin. As for the "How Melkor did it" question, I have some observations about that, too, but they will have to await the posting of the introduction to the highly significant Chapter Nine.
__________________
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
06-06-2003, 04:35 PM | #13 | ||
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
||
06-06-2003, 04:44 PM | #14 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Quote:
|
|
06-06-2003, 05:00 PM | #15 | ||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. |
||
06-07-2003, 04:52 AM | #16 | |
Mootis per forum
Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Spain
Posts: 61,439
|
Quote:
__________________
Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. |
|
06-07-2003, 11:58 AM | #17 | |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Middle of Germany
Posts: 87
|
Thanks
Quote:
__________________
Finarwë *********************** A! Elbereth Gilthoniel! silivren penna m?*riel o menel aglar elenath, Gilthoniel, A! Elbereth! |
|
06-08-2003, 11:24 AM | #18 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
|
I was reading Maedhros' original thread and saw that he requested pics to go with the Chapter Intros, so here is the best one I could find: Ungoliant
__________________
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
06-08-2003, 11:27 AM | #19 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
|
Here is another that I like almost as well: Melkor and Ungoliant by John Howe
__________________
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
06-08-2003, 03:29 PM | #20 |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Middle of Germany
Posts: 87
|
Is the first picture really Ungoliant?
Looks a bit to small, in comparison with the skeletons in front. The second one is great! I already use it as background-pics on my laptop, since a year or so.
__________________
Finarwë *********************** A! Elbereth Gilthoniel! silivren penna m?*riel o menel aglar elenath, Gilthoniel, A! Elbereth! |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
The Silmarillion Ch 11: Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor | Maedhros | The Silmarillion Project | 20 | 10-24-2018 03:41 PM |
The Lord of the Rings discussion: Chapter 1, A Long-expected Party | cassiopeia | LOTR Discussion Project | 69 | 01-27-2005 05:28 PM |
Silmarillion chapter re-assignments | Sister Golden Hair | The Silmarillion | 82 | 04-21-2004 01:42 AM |
Gwaihir the immortal | Ñólendil | Middle Earth | 9 | 06-16-2002 10:54 PM |
a little orientation needed | DrFledermaus | The Silmarillion | 9 | 02-12-2001 05:48 AM |