Mithlond,Grey Havens, Population late 3rd age

afro-elf · 08-06-2002, 01:16 PM

It says Gil galad ruled from lindon and his influences at his height extened far wider.

I ASSUME he would have sizable population to field to great armies in the 2nd age.

I also assume that mithlond and its "twin city" the grey havens
were great cities to house the last high elven king and his people.

in the late third age would this be sort like the way pippin described Minas Tirith but an elven version?

your thoughts

Gilrond · 09-10-2002, 05:37 PM

I may be wrong, but I think the Grey Havens and Mithlond are the same place. The Eldarin word mith means "grey", such as in Mithrandir, and lond means "port," such as in Lond Daer, thus the Grey Havens is only a Mannish name for the Elven Mithlond, though I may be wrong.

Lindon was great, yes, if that is what you mean; Anarion would often visit Gil-galad in Mithlond and would be advised by him, and would be taught by Cirdan the Shipwright, and Men in Numenor talked of Mithlond as if it were a great haven with a city about it.

__________________________________________________ _
Go not to the elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes.
--Old Saying

afro-elf · 09-10-2002, 11:56 PM

I may be wrong, but I think the Grey Havens and Mithlond are the same place. The Eldarin word mith means "grey", such as in Mithrandir, and lond means "port," such as in Lond Daer, thus the Grey Havens is only a Mannish name for the Elven Mithlond, though I may be wrong.

On the Map in my book its two.

Gilrond · 09-11-2002, 12:31 AM

In the Return of the King, it says "and so they rode down at last to Mithlond, to the Grey Havens in the long firth of Lune."

Maybe we're both right. Maybe Mithlond is a city in Lindon, and the Grey Havens is the port of Mithlond.

Or maybe you are right.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 09-11-2002, 10:44 AM

Foster's Guide to Middle-earth says Mithlond and the Grey Havens are one and the same.

Gilrond · 09-11-2002, 01:22 PM

Thank you, Sister Golden Hair!

afro-elf · 09-11-2002, 11:21 PM

perhaps it's like NYC

afro-elf · 09-12-2002, 03:23 AM

Here is the map that I have

http://www.isildur.com/tolkien/maps/fullmap.gif

it is on both side of the Lhun. between the E and the R of Eriador.

click the zoom arrow in the bottom right corner it may be invisible until the mouse is over it.

Mithlond is on the North side, grey havens to the south

Gilrond · 09-15-2002, 04:26 PM

I see what you mean. Confusing!

Blackboar · 12-18-2002, 05:28 PM

Yeah!

Lollypopgurl · 12-18-2002, 07:03 PM

Oh yeah, I got confusted bout that too! Thnx Sister!

Lefty Scaevola · 12-18-2002, 07:12 PM

Mith=grey lond=port (haven)
Population was very much deceaed by the time of the lord of the ring with more elves leaving than being born. + casualties. At it height the jingdom was well polulated on both side of the Blue Mountaints. By the war of the Rings most of the Area east of the Mountains, except to the twin port city, was abandoned, and the Opulation was thinned out west of the mountains. Rivendell was similarly depopulated. Niether could field a significant military force in the War of the Ring.

08-06-2002, 01:16 PM	#1
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Mithlond,Grey Havens, Population late 3rd age It says Gil galad ruled from lindon and his influences at his height extened far wider. I ASSUME he would have sizable population to field to great armies in the 2nd age. I also assume that mithlond and its "twin city" the grey havens were great cities to house the last high elven king and his people. in the late third age would this be sort like the way pippin described Minas Tirith but an elven version? your thoughts __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

09-10-2002, 11:56 PM	#3
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I may be wrong, but I think the Grey Havens and Mithlond are the same place. The Eldarin word mith means "grey", such as in Mithrandir, and lond means "port," such as in Lond Daer, thus the Grey Havens is only a Mannish name for the Elven Mithlond, though I may be wrong. On the Map in my book its two. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

09-11-2002, 12:31 AM	#4
Gilrond Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 52	Reply... In the Return of the King, it says "and so they rode down at last to Mithlond, to the Grey Havens in the long firth of Lune." Maybe we're both right. Maybe Mithlond is a city in Lindon, and the Grey Havens is the port of Mithlond. Or maybe you are right.

09-11-2002, 11:21 PM	#7
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	perhaps it's like NYC __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

09-12-2002, 03:23 AM	#8
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Here is the map that I have http://www.isildur.com/tolkien/maps/fullmap.gif it is on both side of the Lhun. between the E and the R of Eriador. click the zoom arrow in the bottom right corner it may be invisible until the mouse is over it. Mithlond is on the North side, grey havens to the south __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 09-12-2002 at 03:29 AM.

09-10-2002, 05:37 PM	#2
Gilrond Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 52	I may be wrong, but I think the Grey Havens and Mithlond are the same place. The Eldarin word mith means "grey", such as in Mithrandir, and lond means "port," such as in Lond Daer, thus the Grey Havens is only a Mannish name for the Elven Mithlond, though I may be wrong. Lindon was great, yes, if that is what you mean; Anarion would often visit Gil-galad in Mithlond and would be advised by him, and would be taught by Cirdan the Shipwright, and Men in Numenor talked of Mithlond as if it were a great haven with a city about it. __________________________________________________ _ Go not to the elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes. --Old Saying

09-11-2002, 10:44 AM	#5
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Foster's Guide to Middle-earth says Mithlond and the Grey Havens are one and the same.

09-11-2002, 01:22 PM	#6
Gilrond Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 52	Thank you, Sister Golden Hair!

09-15-2002, 04:26 PM	#9
Gilrond Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 52	I see what you mean. Confusing!

12-18-2002, 05:28 PM	#10
Blackboar Legolas's beloved sister and Queen of the Wood Elves of Mirkwood Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Under the hill at Bag-end, Hobbiton the Shire Or Rivendell,I can't remember!!!!!!!!!! Posts: 1,086	Yeah!

12-18-2002, 07:03 PM	#11
Lollypopgurl Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 222	Oh yeah, I got confusted bout that too! Thnx Sister! __________________ a violinist...

12-18-2002, 07:12 PM	#12
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Mith=grey lond=port (haven) Population was very much deceaed by the time of the lord of the ring with more elves leaving than being born. + casualties. At it height the jingdom was well polulated on both side of the Blue Mountaints. By the war of the Rings most of the Area east of the Mountains, except to the twin port city, was abandoned, and the Opulation was thinned out west of the mountains. Rivendell was similarly depopulated. Niether could field a significant military force in the War of the Ring. __________________ Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me,"

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