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12-28-2003, 06:13 PM | #1 |
AngAdan
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Chapter 18: "On the ruin of Beleriand and the fall of Fingolfin"
Synopsis
The chapter starts with Morgoth under siege in the fortified area, and the Noldorin Princes except for Fingolfin, Angrod, and Aegnor, lulled into security and comfort in the four century old kingdoms. Morgoth is so ticked off at this point, that he not only want to defeat the Noldor and take their Kingdoms, but also “to destroy and defile the lands that they had taken and made fair”. He has the strategic advantages of central position, and lack one of the disadvantages, having a wide back door for communications and supply. He launches his battle, starting with a devastating technological surprise attack, the sudden flame, incinerating the close besiegers and the support on the Ard-galen, eliminating a large part of the full time and best warrior of the Noldor. The fires thus generated also disorganize the perimeter defenses of Dorthonion when the forest on the forward slopes of this plateau are ignited. The rest of the besieging armies and their support are swept from the plain (soon to be called Anfauglith {the choking dust}), by Morgoth’s armies, lead by Glaurung and the Balrogs. Vast armies of Orcs are mentioned. Presumably there are also troll, wargs, werewolves, and other forces, but they are not expressly mentioned. The Noldor are driven back to their fortified hill and mountain chains defending their kingdoms. With clear strategy he severs communication between the wings of Noldorin forces by first destroying Dorthonion and Ladros, in the center. This means that the remaining power centers of the Noldor and their Allies are separated by many miles of enemy territory. Much of this isolation is only because of Thingol’s obstruction; refusing to coordinated Morgoth policy with the Noldor and their allies, and barring them from traveling through Doriath, and because of the horror of the Nan Dungorthreb. Barahir saves Finrod, who makes his oath of gratitude and succor. In the east, The pass of Aglon is forced and Celegorm and Curufin lose their lands and flee to Nargothrond, of all places. The Oathtakers’ forces are driven from the plains of Lothlann, Maglor’s gap, Mt Rerir, Lake Helevorn, and Thargelion, and East Beleriand between Thargelion and Doriath. Maglor joins Maedhros upon Himring, as do various other displace forces. Amrod, Amras, and Caranthir retreat south to Amon Ereb and hold there. The high king Fingolfin goes berserk with rage and despair, and shining so much of his blazing spirit through, that what enemies he encounters flee, rides to the Gates of Angband, duels Morgoth, wounding him, and is slain. Fingon is now high King. The remaining warriors of the first house of the Edain fight guerilla warfare, in Dorthonion, being driven back into its wilder areas, , and their women and children flee through the mountains to Brethil and Dor-Lomin. Two years later, Sauron leads an army against the pass of Sirion and Minas Tirith on Tol Sirion, drives out Orodreth and takes it, using, it is implied, much sorcery. Using the passes open to him, he send raiding parties, spies, and covert agents into Beleriand. He has suffered so many casualties, that he cannot continued into Beleriand by main force and mass armies. Morgoth summons men from east of the Ered Luin, and other come as well.. They ally with the Oathtakers, some are loyal, some not. The Haladin and with aid from Doriath smack down an orc army in Northern Brethil, and stem the dark advance there. Maedhros manages to seal of the Pass of Aglon again. Hurin and Huor, young princes of the Dor-Lomin, were in Brethil under the care of their uncle, Halmir Lord of the Haladin, at this time. While fighting the Orcs north of Brethil, they were cut off and driven across the Sirion into Dimbar. From here they were rescued by the Eagles and taken to Gondolin, and were taken into King Turgon’s household. After about a year Turgon released them under pledge of secrecy, and the eagles took them to Dor-Lomin. Some guess at their adventure and rumors reach Morgoth. Turgon attempts to send messengers to Valinor, but the can not penetrate the enchantments defending it. Morgoth recalls his main forces for rebuilding and send forth yet more spies, in particular seeking information on Finrod’s and Turgon’s Kingdoms. 7 years after the Bragollach, Morgoth attacks Hithlum from the east and from the north, but is driven back with heavy loss by Hurin and Fingon, with aid from Cirdan. Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 12-29-2003 at 07:19 PM. |
12-28-2003, 06:15 PM | #2 |
AngAdan
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Additional Readings
There are many spots in HoME covering this period of the Silmarillion, but no significant additional detail of information is in them, save that which was superceded, and little is quoted here.
HoME
My favorite part of all the HoME is the Lay of Leithian in III The lays of Beleriand, and I will quote its lines 3538 thru 3606 (68 lines) about Fingolfin’s duel Morgoth with in a later post. Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 12-29-2003 at 07:15 PM. |
12-28-2003, 06:17 PM | #3 |
AngAdan
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Discussion Topics
1. Why are the Noldorin Princes other than Fingolfin, Angrod & Aegnor ( the Athrabeth suggest than Finrod is possibly aligned with these 3 on this issue), most particularly the 7 Oathtakers, not more concerned with prosecuting the war against Morgoth? The raison de etre of the Oathtakers should be fighting Morgoth and getting the jewels. Why are they sitting on their asses in manor halls or on hunting horses? They do not even have wives with them (4 unmarried and Curufin’s wife stayed in Valinor, and we do not know if Maglor’s or Caranthir’s wives came the ME). All with Elven wisdom should recognize that Morgoth is gather strength from the rest of Middle Earth, and that his military power will grow faster than theirs. Why not are these brilliant Noldor using all the super craft to make siege and assault engines to deal hard blows to Angband before it grows yet stronger (cursed as the Noldor are, without believing it, to ultimate defeat)?
2. How are the Noldor who need little sleep (see Legolas in LoTR) and have such heightened senses so badly surprised by the Sudden Flame “The watchfires burned low. and the guards were few, on the plain few were waking in the camps of the Horseman of Hithlum” Huh? theses are Elves who on campaign can march day and night with indefinitely with an hour of sleep a day, in the camps of Fingolfin (and likely Angrod and Aegnor) who suspect something is up. Has some unmentioned spell of “Ignore the danger and kill me please” be placed upon them? They are acting like the AI in a cheap computer game. 3. What is the nature of the Sudden flame that can outrun Elves on their super horses descended of Valinorian stock? 4. Other than for dramatic effect, why do Celegorm and Curufin flee the long way to Nargothrond, rather tan to the other Feanorians who are closer. 5. Does Thingol really believe that the power of Melian can hold out indefinitely against the power of Morgoth or his chief Maiar lieutenants? She is a gardening angel for heavens sake. Only mutual support with the other Eldarin Kingdoms has any apparent long term chance for security. 6. Everyone who would give much to have seen Fingolfin riding across the Anfauglisth ablaze with such personal power, than no enemy could hinder him from reaching Angband’s gates, raise your right hand. 7. Why does Morgoth so disdain human servants that he does not have armies of men attacking from the east at the same time he pours armies of orcs, trolls, wargs, etc out of the north. Heck, even the very arrogant Oathtakers can stomach allying with them. 8. Is Sauron’s assault on Minas Tirith more a military one, or more a sorcerous one? 9. Are those First house of the Edain warriors tough bad asses or what? They are going to bleed those stinking orcs and whatever of Morgoth for every inch of their ground. A do not forget their women, successfully passing the fringes of the Ered Gorgorth and Nan Dungorthred. 10. How much do you think Ulmo, or higher power, is behind Hurin and Huor being lost and driven towards Gondolin. Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 12-29-2003 at 11:22 AM. |
12-29-2003, 05:51 PM | #4 | ||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Re: Additional Readings
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--Life is hard, and then we die. Last edited by Artanis : 12-29-2003 at 05:54 PM. |
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12-29-2003, 06:02 PM | #5 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Lefty, this is brilliant.
At the moment I don't know how to comment, I need to re-read the chapter first. Oh, but yes, I'm raising my right hand!
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12-29-2003, 06:54 PM | #6 | ||||
The Tall
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Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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12-29-2003, 07:13 PM | #7 |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
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4. Yeah I was aware that in the oldest version that Celgorm and Curufin were founders of Nargothrond, fleeing there after fighting in the Pass of Siron, but once the family divisions were established, and they were moved over to Himlad and Aglon, it does not make sense anymore. What I was looking for was an inside story logic/rationale/motivation (made by the reader of course) to explain their action, rather than an outside "JRRT did not get around to revising that part" reason.
Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 12-29-2003 at 07:14 PM. |
12-29-2003, 07:20 PM | #8 | |
AngAdan
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Re: Re: Additional Readings
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12-29-2003, 10:46 PM | #9 | |
Elf Lord
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I'd like to drop in to make a few observations here on:
"1. Why are the Noldorin Princes other than Fingolfin, Angrod & Aegnor ( the Athrabeth suggest than Finrod is possibly aligned with these 3 on this issue), most particularly the 7 Oathtakers, not more concerned with prosecuting the war against Morgoth?" _________________________________________- Perhaps the essential reason is psychological. Elves are biologically, and presumably also mentally, identical to men. So one could imagine that throughout their time in Beleriand they, consciously and subconsciously, replayed the curse (Prophecy of the North) and, whether they could admit it or not, realized that they couldn't prevail by themselves in time. Hence: Quote:
2. ________________________________________ "Why are these brilliant Noldor not using all the super craft to make siege and assault engines to deal hard blows to Angband before it grows yet stronger (cursed as the Noldor are, without believing it, to ultimate defeat)?" ________________________________________ And, given that elves are resistant to cold and snow, why didn't they make more of an effort to use their "super craft" to really invest Angband in the north and probe for ways into the fortress (like Morgoth's attack on Gondolin in reverse), doing more then the occasional patrols I believe they sent.
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Democrat for Kerry-Edwards! Take Back America Aure entuluva! |
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12-30-2003, 04:00 AM | #10 | ||||||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Re: Discussion Topics
Quote:
Yes, it does resemble pre WW2. But this of course doesn't explain why Fëanor's magnificent 7 don't put more effort into the task of their life: To regain the Silmarils. Rusco, why do you think Maitimo was against it? Quote:
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--Life is hard, and then we die. Last edited by Artanis : 12-30-2003 at 01:27 PM. |
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12-30-2003, 12:40 PM | #11 | ||
The Tall
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Quote:
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Now there is someone who has excellent taste.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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12-30-2003, 06:27 PM | #12 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Quote:
I've loved that description of Maitimo since I first read it.
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12-31-2003, 08:27 AM | #13 | ||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Re: Discussion Topics
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Quote:
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12-31-2003, 08:51 AM | #14 | |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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Re: Re: Discussion Topics
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. Last edited by Falagar : 12-31-2003 at 08:57 AM. |
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12-31-2003, 04:31 PM | #15 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Thanks, Lefty, for your summary, and I raise my right hand and jump up and down!
And thanks for the section from Lays, Artanis - that part is so beautiful and stirring. I love Fingolfin's challenge: "'Come, open wide, dark king, your ghastly brazen doors! Come forth, whom earth and heaven abhors! Come forth, 0 monstrous craven lord, and fight with thine own hand and sword, thou wielder of hosts of banded thralls, thou tyrant leaguered with strong walls, thou foe of Gods and elvish race! I wait thee here. Come! Show thy face! " Whew, what a guy! *fans face* The Elves were such lovers of nature and beauty, that I think they basically got too comfortable, and thought "there's always time to tackle the Morgoth; let's enjoy the beauty here awhile first, that the Valar tried to take away from us." And yes, the men were pretty tough dudes, too.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-04-2004, 12:37 PM | #16 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Well - anyone else but me who thinks Fingolfin should have counted slowly to 10 ?!?
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01-04-2004, 08:19 PM | #17 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Nah, I think he waited long enough - remember, he was around when his dad was killed by Morgoth - the first death.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-05-2004, 07:09 AM | #18 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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He should not have challenged Morgoth. There was nothing to achieve from it (other than giving us some great verses ). If he had taken the time to think he may have calmed down enough to see that there was still hope for the Noldor. Wouldn't he have been of better use alive?
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01-05-2004, 01:17 PM | #19 | ||||||
The Insufferable
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Quote:
One gets the impression that, once the elves had managed to beat back Melkor's forces and hem him in, they slipped into a sort of "It's working! Let's keep doing that!" mentality. So instead of continuing the war, the paused to lick their wounds, and, well, their attention spans ran out (Ooh! Shiny stuff!). Quote:
Over a long period of inhabitation, it's been established that running is not the best way to combat a wildfire. But of course, the elves would have never met such a thing, and hence would have no idea how to deal with it. I don't find their deaths at all hard to believe. However this is, of course, speculation. I'm not quite sure whether the landscape of Ard Galen would have allowed it. But it does seem quite plausible. Quote:
There are significant differences, though, in the situations. Melkor was never really defeated like germany was, the method of warfare the elves were using was nothing like the trench warfare of WWI, and the political scene was really very different- there was no indicator of what melkor was planning, nor were there any attempts at appeasement by the noldor. Quote:
It is interesting to consider how things might have gone differently if he had spent some effort recruiting the humans. Sauron, for example, excercised an even greater degree of control over his orcish troops than did Morgoth, but he interspersed them with uninfluenced humans from the south and east. When Sauron fell, the orcs fled, but the men kept fighting. Quote:
On the other hand, if it were mostly sorcerous then there would be little chance that casualties would be able to slow him down, would there? So chances are it was a mixed force. Quote:
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01-29-2004, 05:11 PM | #20 | |
AngAdan
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Re: Discussion Topics
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"..., but if these (House of Hador) surpassed them (House of Beor) in swiftness of mind and body, in daring and noble generosity, the Folk of Beor were more steadfast in edurance of hardship and sorrow, slow to tears or laughter, their fortitude needed no hope to sustain it." bold is mine These are the guys I want on my flanks, my reserves, and the holding units of my center and guard. The Third House is for the vanguard, scouting forces, and shock forces of the center and cavalry. Hard to choose which for a rear guard. The 1rst house has the temperment for it, but you cannot argue with the Last stand of the Men of Dor Lomin.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," |
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