12-16-2003, 06:08 PM | #1 |
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What was the Most Important Marriage/Couple...
Last night after reading the story of "Aldarion and Erendis" in Unfinished Tales I started to think about whose marriage was the most important in all the lands and Ages of the World. There came to mind a number of very important partnerships over the vast ages of the world. Of course if you say one marriage it can be that the marriage of their parents were just as important and so on, as it allowed that later marriage to happen.
Anyway, which marriage do you think was the MOST important in the history of the world, and why do you think it to be so? For me, after thinking about this all day, I think that the marriage between Tuor and Idril was the most important. Tuor being the son of Huor of the House of Hador and Idril being the daughter of Turgon Elf King of Gondolin. I say this because, from them brought great hope to the world, which I will speak about in a bit. Before even getting to the point of their marriage though, the House of Hador represented by Húrin and Huor (Tuor's father), were held in high regard with Turgon and the Eldar of Gondolin amongst others. During the Nirnaeth Arnoediad Huor and Húrin helped hold off the enemy by guarding Turgon and his people thus allowing them to escape. However, before they parted, Huor prophesied to Turgon that new hope would spring from the two of them, saying '...from you and from me a new star will arise'. How true that statement was that Huor made. First to begin the line of descent on Idril's side comes down from Finwë, the first High King of the Noldor, down through his son Fingolfin who was the father of Turgon the father of Idril. Second, the descent on Huor's side comes down from the House of Hador Lórindol who was in great favor in serving Fingolfin. From there Hador's son was Galdor who son's were most notably Húrin and Huor. Huor of course being the father of Tuor. The House of Hador was also the most reknowned of the Three Houses of the Edain, which included the descendants and followers of Hador Lórindol. Húrin Thalion, Túrin Turambar, Huor and Tuor were all descended from this House. They, along with the other Two Houses of the Edain (Bëor, Haleth) were the Elf-friends of the Elder Days, faithful to them in the wars of Beleriand and were ultimately given the isle of Númenor (which I will mark shortly). continued...
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
12-16-2003, 06:09 PM | #2 |
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...continued
Going from there into the life of Tuor, he was not only led and instructed by a Vala (Ulmo) to find Gondolin and get to Turgon, but he fell in love with his daughter Idril and from them was born Eärendil the Mariner, who is arguable one of the most important people to be born. Along with his birth comes greatness as a result of the marriage between Tuor, a mortal man, and Idril, an Elf-princess. From Eärendil comes the following: 1) He sailed Belegaer, the Great Sea of the West seeking the undying lands to call for aid of the Valar against Morgoth, 2) His wife came to him, while he sailed, in the form of a white sea bird with the help of Ulmo (again Ulmo helps this family as he did earlier with Tuor) bearing the Silmaril, after being attacked by the Sons of Fëanor, 3) With the aid of the Silmaril, he finds the Undying Lands at last and goes before the Valar to plead with them to send help, 4) The Valar send forces after Eärendil begs them to, and Morgoth is defeated. From there he became a blessed star and light. Since his father was a Man, and his mother an Elf, Eärendil and his wife Elwing and their sons were given the choice of race to which they wished to belong. Elwing chose Elvenkind, and Eärendil did as well, for her. Their sons are none other than Elrond and Elros. Arguably again two more of the most important people to live. Elrond chose the life of an Elf and Elros chose that of a Man. Elrond being one of the greatest Elves in all the History of Middle-Earth, where notable we find later on through his kin the bloodline of elf and man is renewed yet again. Elros being the most important of the race of the "Kings of Men". As a result of Elros's choosing the Valar rewarded the Houses of the Edain by giving them Númenor in which he was the first King and the longest lived man in all of the History of the world. Elros of course produces a longer line of lineage than Elrond, with the Númenoreans, later known as the Dúnedain. From there many generations down through up to the time of the end of the Third Age, this bloodline is again renewed through Arwen (Elrond's kin) and Aragorn (descendant of Elros). So in summary, I chose their marriage and not marriages before them and leading up to them, because their coming together was the spark that change the fate of Elves and Men. Without the marriage of Tuor and Idril, there is no significant mixing of the bloodlines of Elf and Man, even though it did happen once previously. There would be no birth of Eärendil, which means no Elrond or Elros. With no Elros there is no High Kings of Men, the Númenoreans. Without this hereditary line started from Tuor and Idril, Morgoth would not have been destroyed and evil would have claimed dominion over the vastness of the world. We wouldn't even fear Sauron as he was in the Second and Third Ages, because Morgoth would still be running the show... Anyway, which marriage do you think was the MOST important in the history of the world, and why do you think it to be so?
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
12-16-2003, 06:18 PM | #3 |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
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Well I think that Finwe and Indis is the most important b/c their children were great and the history of the world and the elves' history would have been diminished if they had not been born...they brought alot of lore to Middle Earth upon their return.
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12-16-2003, 06:20 PM | #4 | |
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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12-16-2003, 06:20 PM | #5 |
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Drogo Baggins = Primula Brandybuck
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12-16-2003, 06:24 PM | #6 | |
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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12-16-2003, 07:06 PM | #7 |
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What about Luthien and Beren? Half the important people of Middle-Earth are their descendents!
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12-16-2003, 07:26 PM | #8 | |
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12-16-2003, 07:34 PM | #9 | ||
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Wow Dúnedain! Your post is really well thought out!
General question for all: What defines the importance of a marriage? Is it the offspring or line produced? What the marriage meant to the people involved? Other factors? A combination of factors?
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12-16-2003, 08:00 PM | #10 | |
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Basically it is a combination of everything together, but most importantly for me the ultimate impact of their coming together and the resultant of them coming together...
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen Last edited by Dúnedain : 12-16-2003 at 08:19 PM. |
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12-16-2003, 08:17 PM | #11 | |
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Yes if you look at it from the result of their descendants from the line of Elwing as she married Eärendil and a debate can be made. However, I still think that Tuor and Idril are more important, because without Eärendil, the Valar would not have come to save the day and defeat Morgoth. The immediate impact of their marriage is the result of a fulfillment of a prophecy by Huor, however it even runs more deep, as Ulmo did tell Turgon to put the armor and weapon in Nevrast and to expect a person thus dressed to come to him one day and to abide his words. Unfortunately Turgon didn't listen to his words, but that is neither here nor there and a whole other story So really Tuor was expected in two aspects. 1. To come to Turgon through the words that Ulmo spoke to him, and 2. That the line of Turgon and Huor would give hope to the world through their blood. It's important not to confuse only the great things a certain married couple did, such as Luthien and Beren, however you must look at the overall aspect of what it meant for the world immediately around them and on from there. To me the Luthien and Beren story is great, but it was basically about the recovery of a jewel, it wasn't exactly something that would change the fate of their respected races...
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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12-18-2003, 02:22 AM | #12 |
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Surely there are more people that have thought about this!! Right? lol
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
12-18-2003, 03:19 AM | #13 | |
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12-18-2003, 10:10 AM | #14 | |
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Oh - I got one for you though... no books to check names, but how about JRR's folks? Dad was also 'John' - right? What was his mother's name again...?? |
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12-18-2003, 10:28 AM | #15 |
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i'd put a slight twist on Arien the Maia's suggestion and say it was the marriage of Finwë and Miriel... without their sole child, Fëanor, there would be no silmarils, they would not have been stolen by morgoroth, the elves would never have returned to middle earth, and as a result, it could be argued that morgoroth would never have been ultimately defeated by the valar... it may have been a better world for the eldar... but it would be a pretty bleak history for the rest (avari, men, dwarves, hobbits)... the way i see everything else springs from this
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12-18-2003, 10:31 AM | #16 |
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Finwë and M*riel of course! Without them there would be no Silmarillion.
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12-18-2003, 01:10 PM | #17 | |
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12-18-2003, 01:24 PM | #18 | |
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
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12-18-2003, 01:26 PM | #19 | |
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12-18-2003, 01:31 PM | #20 |
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Hm, personally I think the marriage of Finwë and Indis is just a tad more important that that of Finwë and M*riel. While Finwë and M*riel provided Fëanor, their situation alone would never have led to the exodus of the Noldor to Middle-earth and all the consequences that brought to the history of Middle-earth.
If Finwë hadn't remarried and hadn't given Fëanor half-brothers, Morgoth would not have found anything to work with on Fëanor. It was the presence of Fingolfin that made Fëanor easier prey for Morgoth's corruptive powers. Without the friction between Fëanor and Fingolfin, Fëanor would never had been banished to (I think the name of the place was)Formenos. He would not have locked the silmarils away in there and Finwë would not have been there to be killed by Morgoth. If Fëanor had remained in T*rion, much closer to the Valar, I doubt Morgoth would have been so succesful in stealing the silmarils. Or whether he could have gotten away unnoticed so easily. Without his banishment and the bitterness he had about it, Fëanor might have been more easily pursuaded to give up the silmarils to Yavanna to rekindle the Trees. So without the situation with Fëanor and his halfbrothers, the silmarillion might never have happened. No noldor in Middle-earth, no Idril to marry Tuor, no Eärendil to be the embassador of the Two Kindreds. So for me, it's a bit of a tie between Finwë's marriage with Indis and Idril's marriage with Tuor.
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